I have disassemble, cleaned and degreased this old Fox I bought and now would like some advice on what aerosol type oil I should use to relube the inside? Should I use an aerosol? I have searched this forum and found CorrosionX, EezoX and Clenzoil, would these be good for this purpose or what do you reccomend? I assume a light coating is best and some time for excess to drain off? I believe it was mentioned that Clenzoil stayed on the metal longest, but EezoX had the best rust prevention? Thanks very much, Kurt

Kurt:

I have used Norvey's Highest Quality Turbine lubricating oil for many years and find it by far the best.......

Turbine oils are made to run at very high speeds and adhere to the bearings and other rotating groups, so a gun application is a cake walk for this oil.......

It is a superior light weight clear turbine oil with superior adhesion properties produced by Norvey, Inc. in Santa Ana, CA...300 So. Standard Ave, Santa Ana, CA. 92701.......

I buy it by the case from Ace Hardware and most larger Ace's handle this oil, usually in the electric motor or air conditioning section........it comes in a 'zoom' spout oiler that makes it very handy to oil the smaller intricate parts.........After soaking the parts in Acetone for at least 24 hours, I then let the action and small parts, screws etc. soak in this oil for over 24 hrs before re-assembly.....after soaking you can set the parts on a clean cotton cloth and the excess oil will drain off nicely and you will have a superior light film of a very high grade oil......that stays for a very long time.......

It is also sold on Amazon and Ebay sometimes....





Factory 100% CC Philly 1929 Sterlingworth......

Doug, Thank you. I will check the Ace hardware near here for it first. Kurt

After cleaning, spray the insides with Boeshield T-9, blow off excess with compressed air, re-assemble and forget about it for a long time.

http://www.boeshield.com/

JR

Kurt:

Pictures added........

I like to use Clenzoil, I only use it on the outside of the gun. When on a hunt or out shooting, I like to carry a soft flannel rag coated in Clenzoil (keep it in ziplock) to wipe down barrels and trigger guard before putting the gun away.

A gunmaker friend of mine likes to use this oil and grease to lube the guns guts when he does strip and cleans for clients. http://nyelubricants.com/
I have started using this lubricant as well for internal parts/mechanisms.

The gentleman who got me into doubleguns always used Singer Sewing Machine oil to lube the guts when he stripped and cleaned his guns.

I believe Rocketman likes to use this stuff..http://www.mousemilk.com/

Dustin

old ed the gunsmith swears by nyoil. he should know, with over 60 years of experience working on guns of all types.

Damn. Now thats one hell of an endorsement.

The top Perazzi 'smiths go for TriFlow. I've used it for a couple decades on all manner of high friction parts and have never seen any evidence of lube failure.
Good enough for them it's good enough for me.

Dr.WtS

Looks like I am going to be reading alot of labels Monday when I go to buy as acetone for cleaning the stock. Perhaps I will find simular contents? Thanks to all for the help! Kurt

I think all good quality oils will do the job fine. The main thing is to remember that nothing will be worth a damn in 20 yrs or maybe even much less. Besides, it'll be full of powder residue and dirt if you've done your part. Probably a good idea to pull 'em down to their guts, clean and lube, every 10,000 rounds or 10 yrs, whichever comes first.

"Turbine oil"...I don't think I've seen that on my hardware store's shelf. I'll make a point to look.

I just googled turbine oil and it turns out Aircraft Spruce has it by the quart for 12 bucks.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/shell500.php

But that's 45 miles from me. I can stop by the airport across the street (TOA) and buy a quart for probably a couple bucks more.

Doug,
Can you relate some experiences/charateristics with this stuff?

I've used everything from sewing machine oil to WD-40, Rem-Oil, Tri-Flow, Breakfree, and even Mobil 1 motor oil in a pinch. All seemed to work well.

Chuck:

I have used turbine oil for many years.......the AeroShell 500 Jet turbine oil, like you found at Aircraft Spruce (used to be in Fullerton)...is excellent oil and is made to run in turbine engines operating at 40,000 rpm +........it is a "very light" oil made to spray onto the rotating group bearings of PW's, Garrett's, GE's, Allison, RR's and the like..........it is the purest oil you can buy......

It is the "cleanest", smoothest, slickest oil you can buy and that I have ever used...I use it for all my "oiling needs", i.e. small parts for trucks and cars or stationary engines, fishing equipment, boats, airplane maintenance and so on.............

It withstands aircraft speeds if used on control surface hinge pins without collecting excessive dirt particles, unlike all other oils.....

There is a very slight 'evaporative' quality to this oil....a small portion of the chemicals will evaporate or slip off, leaving the most perfectly oiled part you have ever seen........

Turbine oil is the ONLY oil I use to oil down barrels after re-blueing and some chemical property (not sure which property) in this oil really sets the blue......after most of the excess has been taken off......

It is not harmful to wood.....

Overall a fabulous oil for most applications......I've used it since I was a young first officer many, many years ago.........I've never used another oil that even comes close.........

I wipe down my guns with lightly oiled shotgun cotton patches as I put them back in the safe after use and cleaning.....

Norvey's is good too and I like the little oilers....the AeroShell Turbine oil 500 from the airport is probably better quality, although Norvey's just packages the same stuff in smaller quantities, both are very good in comparison to 'other' oils..........

Try it Chuck, I think you will be impressed........

Will do. Thanks Doug.

Turbine oil, sounds interesting, will investigate it, thanks. Up to now, after I clean parts (I use an ultrasonic cleaner) I have soaked them in fresh ATF. Highly refined, maybe not as much as turbine oil, inexpensive, but does smell a bit.

Pretty low shear quality on modern ATF. Lock-up torque converters took the need for that out of ATF, and the quality is lower, as a result. Very high detergent, not really needed in a gun application.
Not my first choice, but, likely better than what was available when the guns were new.
Chuck is likely on the right track. My Dad put 150,000 on a 1951 flathead Ford, using straight mineral oil of whatever quality was available back in the day-but, he changed it at 1500 mile increments.
I'm going to boldly guess if you are on this site and reading this, you are in your gun often enough it really doesn't matter what you use. Fresh lube will keep 'em running longer than it will keep us running.
Anyone here ever worn out a gun?


Best,
Ted

Yeah, ATF pretty much has a primary function of being a hydraulic fluid, with a side job of lubing rotating components with relatively low side forces compared to recip engines. Impulses from the piston power cycles create pretty high specific pressures on rod and main bearings. Modern synthetic motor oils are pretty magic.

Alrighty then, ATF back in the car!

Thanks,

Well, dang me, Chuck! I just bought a gallon of Mobil 1, on your recommendation. Oh, maybe it was just a quart. I have some more neat little bottles for gun oil now. The more I have, the more likely I can find one. The eye drops they gave me to use after my cataract repair are very nice little containers.

Jim,
I'm still a fan of M1. It's a high purity synthetic with great qualities that are well documented. I don't think there's any reason M1 could be said to be inadequate in any way.

When you use it in a car, it does find all your engine oil leaks for you....


Best,
Ted

Ted,
I'm on my second truck using nothing but M1. 230,000 on the first truck and it's still running nicely. The second has 40,000 on it. Both have had nothing but M1 since the first oil change. Neither of them leak a drop.

I've heard the stories about the oil leak thing on the truck forums. Most stories were with engines that had lots of time with mineral oil first. Could be something to it.

Personally I use a 0W-20 M1 in working on antique Sewing Machines. It seems to do a better job than the Singer oil & $6.00 a Quart is a lot better than about $1.00 an oz in those little 4oz bottles.
Only downside is its not "Stainless" but unless you can throw it the washing machine its best to keep the oil OFF the cloth to begin with & if you can it doesn't really make that much difference.
Have also started using it on most anything needing a light oil, including guns, don't know what affect it has on wood so currently using the same basic precautions to keep it out of the inletting as any other oil.

I think SDH and others method of sealing the head of the stock and inletting is good advice. The "Turbine" oils may be more "stain-free" since they seem to have higher purity to avoid carbonization that can kill a jet.

Aircraft Turbine engines require synthetic oil, aircraft piston engines do not, or other ground piston engines.........although it is far superior......therefore, all Aircraft Turbine Engine Oil is synthetic......dibasic esters and polyethylene oil base mixtures.....packaged at very few qualified plants that are certified.......

First formulated during WWII in Germany and the U.S. during the same period........

Aircraft Turbine synthetic oil does not hold any carbon residue in suspension and maintains purity at extreme temperatures while maintaining superior lubricating properties......

Molecular shear particle separation is in the extreme league....

The original Singer oil was nothing but straight mineral oil, highly refined so that it was colorless. This was done so that it would not stain cloth run through a sewing machine. You can get the same stuff at any pharmacy labeled as medicinal mineral oil. I don't know what the present oil is, since modern sewing machines don't have nearly as many mechanical parts that they used to thanks to the computer revolution.

OB

Ever tried K-Y Jelly?

Curl

Doug,
I remember reading somewhere that the synthetic oil manufacturing method was stolen during WW2 by either us or the Germans, one way or the other. I don't exactly recall which, but I thought we stole it from them.

Get'n kinda a personal there....

Chuck:

I read the same thing somewhere, mentioned was that both sides were working on it....in reality, I'm sure that one side 'borrowed technology' from the other ....I'm glad the development of synthetic started and progressed to what it is today.........great stuff, it has really improved the motoring world and industry........none of my cars/trucks/airplanes leak either Chuck...................

So would the Norvey's or Aeroshell 500 turbine oil work as a lubricant on the hinge pin and lugs?

Truth is most anything would "work".

Right on HomelessJoe. As a real lubrication engineer once told me, "oil is pretty much oil".

OB

Hey jOe:

How about Crisco, tortilla frying lard or olive oil....?.......

I used Peanut Oil once, on a firearm that got dunked in the Lake, it worked for quite a few days till I could clean it properly.

I have heard that STP is a vegetable based lube, and I have used a jojoba oil engine additive. Thompson Center Natural Lube 1000 is a vegetable based patch lube that does a better job of preventing after rust in my flintlocks than anything else I've tried. I used it on the exterior of my gun with excellent results, but wondered if the anise smell might spook game. Probably no more than the odor of Hoppes No. 9 or anything else would. Prior to Drake's oil strike in 1855, animal and vegetable based lubes were used in guns and everything else because petroleum oils were not readily available. Sperm Whale oil was once the lube of choice for guns and fine mechanisms. I recently saw a pint of Brownells Sperm Oil sell on E-bay for over $100.00.

If you ever tried extracting sperm oil from a whale you'd understand the high price.

I would use Clenzoil. I never use aeresol on a gun. When it/almost anything is under pressure, that means it is going to have a certain amount of moisture to it. (Ever see water come out of a tire valve?) But I don't think you are going to beat Clenzoil. Good luck.

Very interesting reading!
Chuck certanly can use aircrafts oil only!
I have to say I have pretty old mini lathe and after Ballistol spraying it works like new, thou I tried a lot of oils including sinthetics like M1 or Shell for turbo engines.
Old nice Ballistol. Its good not only for gun parts and wood, but for your hands and skin as well.

Joe, sperm whale oil extracted from cachalot's head, "sperm whale" = Cachalot

IMHO, I'd say it is more important for the lube to not hurt the wood over many years of use than it is for the lube to be able to stick to a bearing assembly spinning at 50,000 RPM. Accordingly, I use Ballistol.

--shinbone

"Cachalot"
Geno, I have an old oil bottle (pre 1900) which was sold by the Free Sewing Machine Co (bottled in New London CT) containing about 4oz of oil (now empty). The label on this bottle is still intact & it states "Cachalot Oil".
It should be noted the "Best" grade of the Sperm oil which was recommended for fine machinery was extracted from the head of the Cachalot whale & was already a liquid. Some sources say that from 300 to as much as 500 Gallons of this oil was contained in the head of a large male sperm whale. Many, many more gallons of a lesser grade of oil was obtained by stripping off the blubber & rendering it out. This grade was originally used as illuminating oils in lamps etc.
The only experience I have ever had with Sperm oil was a bottle of the stuff I bought many years ago from Dixie Gunworks, still have most of it left. This was undoubtably the oil from rendering the fat, as was the worst oil I have ever had bar none. In short order it would gum up any thing to which it was applied. My mother had given me her old Singer metal oil can as she was obtaining her machine oil pre bottled & I filled it with this oil for use on my guns. It clogged up the spout & thickened in the bottom of the can & I ended up having to soak it clean with a solvent to restore the can to use.
I purely hope the $100.00 can of Brownell's oil was the good stuff (head oil).

Ballistol is good unless you're hunting in the rain.

I have heard a lot of praise for Ballistol, but not actually tried it. What does it do in the rain Joe? Is it water soluble & thus wash off?

When I've used it to clean blackpowder guns it turns to what looks like milk when it gets wet.

I’ pretty much with the oil..is oil crowd.

Turbine bearing oil would be ideal if you hinge pin is spinning close to 45,000 RPM. To me oil should do two things well: Lubricate and protect from rust, and for most civilian applications just about any mineral oil will meet those requirements.

Here in the shop I have all kinds of oils, mostly for the machinery. The two oils that I use on guns are LPS2 and a shop made concoction based on the “Eds Red” formula. I like it because it has Lanolin which seems to do a good job of keeping rust a bay for extended periods of time.

LPS 2 I use as water displacing oil for after bluing/CCH, I have a crock pot full of LPS2, and parts come out of the bluing operation, and are put into the LPS pot to soak for a while.

When the guns are assembled, I use the stuff with lanolin, the few areas that need grease will get it…but that’s about it.

I did a bit of investigation on Ballistol recently, and have started using it on a few things. As I understand it, the stuff will mix with water but will still leave an oil film when the water evaporates. The only guns of mine that see rain are my duck guns, and they usually get CLP. I have just used a Ballistol mix on my snow chains (very expensive chains) to keep them from rusting while in storage. Put the chains in a 5-gal bucket and fill with a Ballistol/water mix to cover and soak, then hang to dry.

I don't see a need for much lubrication inside my guns, so for that, I'm with the "oil is oil" crowd. The only place I've seen any metal moved is bolting surfaces, so I clean and grease my pins/hooks frequently. I'm much more interested in rust prevention on the internals. Any gun that gets wet enough on the outside to be toweled off gets the stock removed and the innards oiled.

When I varmint hunted with rifles I found the extreme heat of multiple shots, coupled with shooting in hot humid conditions would lead to a rust bloom on blued bolts and barrels within hours. At the time, I read an article wherein the author tested a number of readily available "gun" oils for their rust prevention. His recommendation and my own subsequent tests satisfied me that nothing was superior to Shooter's Choice Rust Prevent. It has been my go-to for general gun oiling for a couple of decades.

I used to use G96 gun treatment, made by Birchwood Casey I believe. Iremember it smelled good enough for colonge and stuck on a gun like glue. You could rub it and rub it ,all it would do is smear. I haven't seen it in years. After a hard sweaty day in the shop you could rub a little on your arms and stop for a beer on the way home without getting throwed out of the saloon. Aw the sixties they must have been great but I can't remember. Rich

I also melt anhydrous lanolin (get it by the plastic tub) in my Ed's Red and unlike everything else in ER, it's good for your hands when you clean off whatever you use to get it out of the tub. I believe it makes the ER a reasonable anti-oxidant layer in bores of shotguns. I like Balistol on revolvers inside and out but don't really worry much about exteriors of long guns as long as they're wiped down with something oily. I used to do the bearing surfaces of break open guns with Vaseline mixed with 3-in-1. Currently, based on rec here, I use the heaviest Mobil 1 racing oil I can find and at least it stays where I put it whatever its other miraculous qualities.

jack

The best gun protectant is Eezox http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html the best place to buy it is Ebay.

I can hardly believe no one has sung the praises of RIG. It has been my standby rust preventative on guns for years. RIG is the one grease I have used that has never allowed a black powder barrel bore to rust, and that is the acid test, IMO. I do not use it for a lubricant but it is the best rust preventative for bores and exterior metal parts I have ever found. I don't know how many years it will remain on metal without evaporating, but it's a lot.