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Great pictures Mark and a real nice variety of game. Looks a good time was had.

tunes

Excellent! Couldn't quite tell from the pictures what you were shooting. Same gun with two sets of barrels or two guns? I am heading back over in July and my second gun will be a Bereta Gold Sable with 30'06x30'06 and 20x20 barrels. Bringing a .375 for buffalo, but we'll have some time for plains game and at least one afternoon at a water hole. Great group of trophies.

Hi Mark,
Thank you for sharing the great pictures with us.

Joe, the rifle is a Merkel 141 double in 9.3x74. The Shotgun is a postwar Simson 12ga that I fit wit a Gracoil recoil reduction system.

looks lik anutter game hog strikes again and again and again...very sad. too bad they can't shoot back.

I have to agree with Ed on this one!

"Dead animal/bird" pictures seem to have become unacceptable to many people today. That may be because of the high volume South American bird shoots and the resulting 4 feet high stacks of dead doves or pigeons. African trophy shots always look sort of 'gloating' and most folks nowadays just think how much more beautiful the game would have looked if it hadn't been shot. I'm afraid a lot of this reaction is the result of anti-hunting propaganda, even amongst ourselves, who love the sport the most.

I have way too many 'trophy shot' pictures of me in my scrapbook to criticize anyone. I also recognize the pride in the eyes of the shooters whose game is pictured in Mark's photos. Notwithstanding the apparent 'overkill', it is the same look of pride I see in the picture I have of one of my son's with his first game...a cottontail rabbit.

In other words, even if the bag may look a little excessive, it clearly was taken legally in areas of the world where the supply was not endangered and the pride of the hunters is totally genuine. I have to disagree with the critisism of Mark's pictures...Geo

Why do some ninnies have to ruin a perfectly nice thread?

I liked the pics and don't see anything excessive about it. Bet'cha every single bit of meat was well used and appreciated. These animals are harvested on a sustaining basis and without the paying hunter they'd either be extinct or a plague.

I totally agree with Ohiosam--please don't ruin someone's thread that he wanted to share with us. Haven't y'all chased off enough good people with cutting remarks to be satisfied? Keep it to yourself if you don't like it!

I came back to apologize to Mark for the mean nature of my post. I will now go do penitence.

Back on topic, nice photos Mark. I'm guessin' that is South Africa?

Mark, what absolute dolts and what a wonderful experience to remember for years to come. Thanks very much for sharing the pictures and for demonstrating that such a hunt can still be accomplished with classic guns is this sensibility obsessed brave new century of ours. Wouldn't it have been grand to spend some time around a fire with some of those rude men and women of the earlier less sophisticated time? Ruark talking about something of value and Hemingway about killing marlin and the frustrating chase for a kudu. And neither embarrassed by their sport. It would be refreshing.

Nice photos Mark, thanks very much for posting. If you don't mind, who was your outfitter?

It looks like about 250 rock pigeons? For 5 guns that's 50 each. Considering the poor native African farmer where we hunted had lost his whole sunflower crop to the pigeons, I wouldnt be at all hesitant to take that many or more birds myself (if I could hit them!). As others have noted, plains game animals are a crop to harvest, like any other, and would'nt exist without the the hunter.

Best,

C.

Thanks for the photos, Mark. Looks like you had a grand time and see you at the UP shoot.

I apologize to Mark and others for my name calling. Best to you all. I'm going on a long hiatus.

And Walter, would you believe I have the preserved remains of a Leopard resting on a rock above my fireplace and a kudu on a pedestal across the room? Not to mention several dozen other scraps of antler and hide hanging about the place.

I guess I am most put off by the whole "shouldn't we all be offended" reaction when the comment displays such apparent ignorance of actual conditions in Africa today. My friend Nick Nolte is a PH on roughly 200k acres of open range in central Namibia. This year, because the economic induced scarcity of hunters, he and other land owners will cull several hundred head of game - primarily oryx. In the tribal areas, plains game is exploding because it now has value to the local population besides being a simple source of protein.

Mark likely made a more serious contribution to the well being of real Africans in his two weeks of "piggish" behavior, than any of the offended enlightened do in a lifetime.

Again Mark, thanks for the post. I am off to the Caprivi in July for buff, roan and sable.

Walt's and Ed's problem is that they are trying to compare their local situation and ethics to a very different place. All the animals were legally taken, I would tell them both to save the name calling for those that break the law.

Doves and Rock pigeons are a nuisance bird that we were told take 60% of the harvest. I remember seeing 50-200 birds within shotgun range at time and shot 3 flats of shells before lunch. It was estimated we took 2,000 birds out of the field and it did not begin to make a dent in the numbers. The locals do not have the means to control the numbers but were very grateful for the birds that were distributed to them after the shoot.

Where I currently live I seldom see a deer, however where I used to live they were far to numerous and considered by many to be "rats with hooves". One year I shot 80 antlerless deer on crop damage permits. The meat was given to a church for distribution to the needy. Did that make me a game hog by trying to control the numbers?

Funny how some like to call people names but get offended when someone stands up to them. I thought dolt and ninnie was pretty mild.

African game and its people are more than just a long way away in miles from us. They are under a completely different set of rules as far as what is good and permissible or even desirable.I don't even pretend to understand the reality of living in Africa as a black native living in scant circumstances.

Walt, we will miss your Ithaca knowlage. Here's a site you may find more to your taste.

http://www.peta.org/vsk/

Maybe you can take Ed with you and he can torch you a boca burger!

In the words of an Army cook many moons ago in a land far away ...... "Take all you want ..... but eat all you take" ...... But what did he know, he was stoned out of his mind and the rain was running off the end of the mess tent into the hot can with the oatmeal.

Al

Are you Like ten years old? You have a total of 6 posts and don't seem to be much of a "wealth of information" yourself.

Many people on this forum would miss him, if he decides to no longer be a part of it. Grow up and learn some respect, even if you don't agree with him.

I have no opinion either way considering the pictures or hunting in general. I do, however, have an opinion about how some of you sure seem anxious to brush off Walt at the expense of him not agreeing with your opinions. That's pretty sad, considering how much he has helped people on this site with his knowledge and freely shared with ALL of us,Including hunters



H&H

Mark, I like the pictures that you posted,I invite you to do it more often,if there are members who not like it, I think they need make choice for an other forum. This is a forum about doubleguns intended to shoot game.
Marc.

great stuff mark, i regret not going when i had a chance.it looks like the hunt of a life time , and you did a good deed providing jobs and meat to people who can really use it . also the beef and chicken in the store does not die of old age it is killed for food.except i dont have any pictures by the freezer section of the super market. mabe ill be a trend setter. Mark Cooper engraver

Gentlemen, let us not fight amongst ourselves and as adults should not revert to name calling. There are groups like PETA and the USHS that just love these things. I believe some of these things should be done by PMs rather than publically. I know that the flesch of these birds and mamals is relished by the locals so it isn't a waste as far as that goes. A great hunt is like haveing a fine meal and sometimes you are to full to partake in dessert which is like the harvesting of the game. I love the hunt and to darn fat for dessert anyway.

Once again the cowardly "key board cowboys",who would not have the stugats to say things they post on here in person try and ruin a thread !!

Neat pics and thanks for posting them Mark !

Mark,
that looks like a bunch of fun! Good for You!
Steve

Guys,
It is not uncommon to shoot so many pigeons in one day in SA. Please understand that the farmers invite you to shoot pigeons for free over the sunflowers lands. If not, they can lose their whole harvest!
Regards,
Charl

I hope that WCC gets over his "snit", soon. A thin skin does one no favors. His knowledge of Ithacas will be missed, until he returns to these threads.

The gentleman seems to have forgotten what double guns were designed to do; take a lot of game and stand up to a lot of punishment. By the standards of the times that in which most "classic doubles" were made the bags shown are pretty modest.

Walt can have any opinion he wants, what is unacceptable is to call Mark (and others) who obeyed all the local game laws first a "game hog" and pig and then go on to question his man hood. Walt owes Mark an an apology.

Agreed............But the above quote from mister 6 post in not called for.

BTW I will be more than happy to PM my address or better yet I will post it here on this thread if anybody would like to come to my house and I will tell you this to your face....So much for "Keyboard Cowboy" comment

H&H

"BTW I will be more than happy to PM my address or better yet I will post it here on this thread if anybody would like to come to my house and I will tell you this to your face....So much for "Keyboard Cowboy" comment"

H&H
If the "glove fits" try it in person,you coward,posting on here means nothing,just another BS'r !BTW its not someone coming to your house you have to think about-no one is that dumb,its the tap on the shoulder when you least expect it.

tracy, comment was correct after what walt and bugger ed said.much milder than the walt and ed comments.i enjoyed the photos and wish i was standing next to mark blasting away.PS be careful of who you pick fights with

Jordan Rahal
4550 Valencia Circle
Colorado Springs, Co 80917

Work from 3:00 to 12:00 M-F
COME TAP ON MY SHOULDER

I Will be at the colorado Collectors show this weekend in Denver.Come by and see me

Why do thngs have to get out of hand like this around here?...Geo

Geo

Just giving him what he thinks he wants. I have no problem with it.

It is sad that this thread has gone to crap, thanks to crap ass post's like mine and DaveK's and the one that really set me off, mister 6 post and the PETA response.

H&H

What is sporting and what is not comes up from time to time on the various forums and opinions on the subject are various also. The use of inflamatory adjectives and adverbs to bolster one's point of veiw is unfortunate and adds nothing to the debate and leads to these type of disputes.
If it is legal I am pro any kind of hunting anywhere. After all it is a renewable resource.
Hey great photos and a nice kudu.

Maybe bad, maybe not: a bunch of guys like Mark in Africa.

A million times worse: no guys like Mark in Africa.

Gentlemen, I again implore you to take your personal affronts to PM, e mails or snail mail what ever. I've been corresponding with Walt by PM and seem to have bben able to communicate on a very adult level. This thread and the one Runs with the Fox are prime examples of what can happen with a honest posting. By the way my address is: John Holmes, 546 Clemens Court, Portage, Wi. 53901, 608 742 3190 or popplecop@hotmail.com

(I'm a guy like Mark; no offense intended)

perhaps game hog was too harsh...would butcher or psychopathic killer be more appropriate?...it has been my experience and observation, that killing for pleasure is a young man's sport. the individual pictured is not a young man. i would hope that he would know better by now. besides, this forum is supposed to be about double guns and not the joys of human excess and compulsive behavior at the expense of other living creatures.

Ed- What do you think people do with the guns they buy from you? You are an enabler, you sell the tools of the trade for killing birds (or are your guns guaranteed to miss?)

I don't believe that hunting is something we need to "grow out of". Maybe more folks should grow into it. It was explained that the birds were a pest problem and multiply in such numbers as to need no protection.
It is said that humans are hunters and gatherers and that it is ingrained into our dna. Some folks seem to have gotten an abundance of gatherer dna.

"One does not hunt in order to kill. On the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted." jose ortega y gasset

Dang it! I'm doing it wrong, I often go hunting with out killing anything. I guess I wasn't really hunting.

Now we are in agreement; Mark has hunted South Africa.

That's me Ed, psychopathic killer. Don't spread it around, but I actually take out my GAME GUNS and use them for - well for KILLING GAME. Of course, if truth be known, I feel morally superior to the hypocrits who pay some guy at a slaughter house to do their killing for them, but that's just me Ed. I think I am probably non-recoverable as well. Heck, I spent 29 years in the military, and I don't even feel ashamed of having been in combat (airborne ranger type so some sort of repressed something going on don't you think?). And as you so noted, probably just my latent immaturity manifesting itself. One caution though. I would really steer clear of sporting clays. You probably didn't realize it, but the game is designed to replicate killing birds. I'm not sure where playing at murder fits on your moral compass, but it makes me squeamish just to think of you at a course. It must leave you very conflicted. But thanks so much for the insight.

Looks like I'm a psychopath then.
You should see the numbers of rabbits we shoot and let rot where they fall. They're vermin, and we try (unsuccessfully) to eradicate them. Same with a few other species. I actually enjoy my days and evenings hunting/slaughtering the little bastards - lots of fieldcraft and marksmanship to get the numbers; of course we can never get them all, and what's left breeds like... ummm... rabbits...

Not into trophy hunting or tally hunting per se, just that it's a job that's got to be done.

I'm still human enough to shed a tear at the end of a day of putting down burned livestock after a fire.
RG

Thank you Walt.

"That wildlife is merely something to shoot at or to look at is the grossest of fallacies. It often represents the difference between rich country and mere land." Aldo Leopold

"It is not essential to the hunt that it be successful." Ortega y Gasset

"With no standard nothing has merit, and man is capable of using even sublimity to degrade himself." Ortega & Gasset

“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.” Ernest Hemingway

"To exterminate or to destroy animals by an invincible and automatic procedure is not hunting. Hunting is something else, something more delicate." Ortega y Gasset

“We must plant the sea and herd its animals using the sea as farmers instead of hunters. That is what civilization is all about - farming replacing hunting.” Jacques Cousteau

In the immortal words of Rodney King "can't we all just get along". When I decided to share the photos of my trip with my Internet Friends I never thought I would be called a pig, a game hog, a psychopath, have my man hood questioned and start a 6 page poop storm. The main point of my post was to show you don't need a long range flat shooting bolt action rifle to shoot plains game. Shooting double guns is one of the things this site is about and shooting a double rifle on my trip made it more challenging and rewarding. I don't think the negative comments are worthy of a response other than saying Walt I accept your apology.

Thanks to all who supported me.



Mark

Well said, and perhaps enough said.

Ed, you seem to be a litttle deeper than I suspected. We'll just have to agree to disagree on some facets of the hunt...Geo

Mark, thank you for sharing your hunting photos, they made me really envious!

You have made don José de Ortega y Gasset proud!

JC

JC: are you trying to be facetious? Or....are you just the outfitter trying to drum up some business?

Ed, I think it is time you stop beating a dead horse. Let others who wish to comment do so.

Mark, was that your first trip? Regardless I assume it won't be your last, everyone I have talked to that has been to Africa vows to go again.

JC is the least waggish contributor I know but he does have a sense of humour and if I may say so decorum. Something this thread is seriously lacking.

Mr. Good,

Neither. I have read several times A "VEINTE AÑOS DE CAZA MAYOR", DEL CONDE DE YEBES
(José Ortega y Gasset, Obras Completas, Tomo VI, pág. 419 a 491) and I meant what I said.
I consider this a serious topic.

StormsGSP, you are sage beyond your years.

TC, thank you for your kind words.

JC

Mark thanks for sharing your hunt with us. What an adventure! I would love to go on a hunt like that.

Thanks again,

Mike

I'm imagining a picture of a guy sitting behind a large pile of torch colored guns...

Now that is Funny!!!!


Glenn