Well, it finally happened.

I usually don't use UPS for firearms but last week I shipped an air rifle and UPS must have thrown it off the truck, they cracked the stock.

The gun was packaged as well as possible, have not had problems before. I filed a claim and it was denied for insufficient packaging.

I am sure they deny all claims as a rule. Has anyone had success in appealing a denied claim?

Any advice? Not out a terrible amount, am more interested in the process.

thanks, Rob

The process is that they will deny, ignore,and disregard you and your claim, until you give up in digust. That has been my experience.

Rob, They always say that. You have to appeal and I have had to threaten small claims court (not an idle threat btw). I have ended up with my insurance money plus shipping. Good Luck!

I've had two UPS claims paid on damaged double guns in the last month. Both guns were shipped assembled, a big mistake. Fortunately, they were shipped in hard plastic, foam-lined cases inside cardboard cartons. The boxes were cable-tied closed. UPS inspected both boxes and found damages on the outside of the box and paid full value for both guns and I kept them. UPS wanted to send a pickup order for them and I refused, saying they didn't have an FFL and weren't entitled to receive firearms. The best way to ship doubles is to take them down, wrap each piece in bubble wrap, and ship them in hard plastic, foam-lined boxes, making sure that they can't shift inside the case. Always insure them for full value.

OK guys, it was insured, I have mentioned small claims, they are reconsidering.

Will report back.


thanks,

Rob

Quote:
". UPS wanted to send a pickup order for them and I refused, saying they didn't have an FFL and weren't entitled to receive firearms. "

One in a great while something gets posted that really gladdens my heart. Your post is right up there in this category. I can think of no other outfit that is deserving of this type of treatment more than UPS.
Jim

I was sending a 30,000 K-80 back for service and called the NRA to see if my insurance covered the gun in transit. The insurance rep said "yes" it is covered. I asked what if UPS damaged it, he said they would take care of UPS.

bill

Hope you got that in writing Bill!

I usually ship UPS; have had no problems.

But ALL packaging should be saved.

I always take two pictures of the box right before shipping making sure one pic shows the address on the box.

A shotgun shipped to me via Fedex arrived with the stock broken in two (again, gun shipped assembled, bad idea). Took the box and gun to Fedex for inspection and they paid.

I dont know why so many dealers ship doubles assembled,.I always ask them to ship broken down and they act like I am from another planet

I agree Brian. Can't imagine why anyone would ship a double gun assembled. And can't imagine using UPS; too many horror stories. Best way is USPS registered insured.

I've just never had a problem with the USPS. Usually I ship in a very strong aluminum case with the shotgun broken down. I send it Priority Mail with signature confirmation. Unless the gun is worth serious money I self insure. Couldn't be happier. UPS and FedEx are royal pains in the rear.

I agree, USPS is the best way to go,registered is the safest but not the fastest.Of course those who are not licensed can not ship handguns through USPS,long guns are fine thou.
It seems that Fedex has now gone to next day for ALL firearms not just handguns,I suspect UPS will follow.The theft problem at both is the issue.

http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/

"FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.
Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.
The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
Fuel Surcharge
We reserve the right to assess fuel and other surcharges on shipments without notice. The duration and amount of any surcharge will be determined at our sole discretion. By tendering your shipment to FedEx, you agree to pay the surcharges, as determined by FedEx. The fuel surcharge rate, if applicable, is available on fedex.com."

11 years of shipping firearms using ONLY USPS REG. Mail ---- no problems ecer .................. FWIW

I ship guns via UPS and have not had any problems in years. Most folks do not know how to pack guns properly. This is quite evident by how folks pack guns that they are shipping to me. They think they know how, but they do not.

Regards,

John Boyd

Dave K;

There is a line in your post that tends, to me, to suggest that Fed-EX has NOT cut off all guns shipping for repair by an individual. Since I use both Fed-Ex and USPS for my shipping, your observations bear looking into.

With respect John, UPS and I don't get along well. They have been the largest contributor to my being in business for 20 years! Hope to see you (John)in Reno this weekend.

Dennis,
I thinks they still allow shipping by individuals,the only change is they now are requiring,costly,overnight for all firearms not just handguns.
UPS has lots of crooks as employees and they had to go to overnight for handguns to try and put a stop to it.I also would not use them either and do not rest easy when expensive items are shipped to me by them. I also refuse to sign for them untill I open them in front of the very anxious driver.

UPS says that a package must be able to survive a drop from 10 feet. What gun, no matter how well packed can survive that?
I too have been told to send guns dissembled. Merkel chewed me out politely for sending them an assembled one.

Dave K;

Investigate Fed-EX Ground services. They delivered three packages last week containing more work for me to do. Just a thought.

Dennis

Dennis,
I have always thought they would accept firearms/long guns for ground delivery,in fact a friend who owns a gunshop switched over to them after UPS destroyed a gun stock on a Browning and would not pay.
I do wonder however if they have changed the policy as it now shows,and this is from their website;

"If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.
Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm."

I have been happy with USPS (registered0but it would be nice to have at least one other option that was safe and does not require overnight.

My shooting buddy is dealing with a UPS claim. A two barrel set was sent to him by a major dealer. The vacuum formed plastic case was crushed enough to marr the checkering in the forearm.
They have promised to stop by twice to assess the damage but have not shown up yet. My son was averaging about four claims a week in his business during the holiday season.

FWIW;

Fed-Ex Express and Fed-Ex Ground are two seperate companies. There are different rules for ground shipping than for air. That being said....my Fed-EX driver gave me a heads up a while ago...USPS pays others to FLY their Priority Mail and Express Mail. Lowest bidder get the job. I mailed a Parker C Grade back to a customer on a Friday to Virginia. He was opening the package on Monday next. USPS Priority Mail/ Signature Confirmation Required. My driver also let "slip" that UPS has the majority of Express Mail delivery contract and FED-EX the majority of the Priority Mail delivery contract. I'm not totally convinced since I don't have hard documentation, only hearsay. I just know that I no longer use UPS for shipping repaired gunstocks back to the customer.....I got tired of repairing work the second time around.....for free.

John, please let us know how to pack them.

Call me direct via phone and I will tell you how to pack them

281-870-8377

John

Dennis,
FedEx ground and FedEx express are indeed two different segments but they are the same company FDX (note the change to "self insurance" ;

http://news.van.fedex.com/q2fy10

when I emailed them to ask the overnight policy on firearms they sent me to the website,I doubt they even know if its a new rule or not.

If a gun is damaged by a shipping company after I pack it, they have gone completely out of there way to accomplish it.

If you are an individual shipping guns, I am sorry to say you will have a harder time collecting from UPS. I am not saying its right I am just saying how it really is


John Boyd

John,
I could give you a call and learn from your expertise, but ALL could be better served if you could post a pic of a properly packed gun...you could earn another star!
TIA,
bamboozler

I can talk faster that I can type

John Boyd

A picture is worth a thousand words!

Thought you may be interested in the outcome.

Persistence and threats bear out. I went right to the top, so to speak. I called UPS headquarters in Atalanta and asked for the CEO by name (Scott Davis). Of course I didn't get him but I through to someone that is there to do what they can to insulate him.

I got a pleasant woman that took all my info and had someone more local call me to handle it. I also mentioned, several times, that I would sue UPS in small claims court and that paying a lawyer was going to cost them more than my claim.

In the interim the gun was returned to me and they wanted to reinspect it. They never did, I still have it.

Bottom line is I had to call her every day for status reports and after about 5 days they approved it and sent a check right out for value plus shipping (thanks Walt!).

Persistence and threat of legal action worked but granted mine was a small claim. I will never use them for anything over a couple hundred dollars.

It is good to hear you wore the Bastards down.

I like some other, only use USPS Registered Mail insured and have never had any damage.
I had a Browning Pigeon Grade Superlight shipped to my FFL once from a private party I purchased the gun from and we agreed to ship UPS. Had to track down the UPS truck by car as the UPS truck was broken down and my gun sitting in it. It was shipped in its original Browning hard case(Bad mistake) wrapped very nicely in bubble pack and the case wrapped in bubble pack and in a cardboard box. The case had taken such a hard blow that the case support near the trigger guard had some damage, luckily the trigger guard was not damaged. UPS, never again.
I usually wrap heavily in bubble pack and then ship in a cardboard box with a minimum of 2" clearance on all sides internally. The seams are taped with clear reinforced shipping tape and support bands are added. So far no problems.
BTW I agree that UPS has some crooks working for it as a manufacturer sent me some copper cookware I ordered in two boxes, the shipping person only insured one of the boxes, guess which one dissapeared? When I reported the missing box after it was listed as delivered, a UPS employee/driver came to the house and said I needed to sign a form for the missing package. As it turns out the form listed the package that had arrived as missing. I refused to sign and called UPS Security. As it turns out the manufacturer had to eat the cost as his people did not have that package insured. I am certain that someone at UPS recognized the misatke and made off with a few $K in copper cookware.-Dick

Please note that the last gun I shipped USPS and insured for more than $2000.00 required wrapping in plain brown shipping paper and secured with the brown fiberglass reinforced packing tape. No exceptions. This requirement does not apply to items insured for less than $2000.00.

My local post office has now become quite comfortable shipping guns for me. Although it was touch and go at the beginning.
In fact they automatically ask me if it is a gun I'm shipping when I come in.

Ken

Yes, I have to ship a DHE in the next couple of weeks, brown tape and USPS Reg. Mail is the order of the day.