...be home for Christmas?

Reports and pictures would be welcome!

JC(AL)

JayCee, I got my call today.The gun will arrive 12/19.
It was ordered ,payed in full 9/21/05.
English grip,2 triggers, 14 3/4",3X wood, case color action.
It will be hear in time for our late grouse season.
Dave

I picked mine up today. 9/28 PIF order PG, DT, 14 1/4" standard wood, grey receiver, SN 25X.

Gripes/Observations: 1) Wood to metal finish is fair at best. The wood is proud enough at the tang, adjacent to the top lever, that the top lever actually rubbed the finish off of the wood when I opened it for the first time.
2) I may be a double gun rookie but I have never had a shotgun that had no texturing on top of the rib itself. It is odd to look down the rib to see it shine. I know... you aren't supposed to look at the rib when you're shooting, it just seems odd.
3) I wish I would have upgraded the wood because it has a very plain stock with little color variations. I have an 1100 sporting with a nicer piece of wood. No one's fault but my own frugality, but I figured Galazan's standard wood would have been nicer. Oh well, the pheasants won't mind.
4) The pins in the receiver are engraved but their engraving doesn't follow the lines of the engraving already in the receiver. Picky, but a quirk I thought that would have been noticed by QC.


Plusses: 1) Nice case/accessories.
2) Nice finish on the wood and bluing


I know I am extra critical of it and I have to remember that it's only a $2500 gun and it probably compares nicely to any other $2500 double available, but when you wait 15 mo I guess that is to be expected. I do not regret my order just that I didn't upgrade the wood.
Joe

Jaycee,Good question the highest # I've seen so far was something like 268.

I had hope that I would be shooting my PIF 9-28-05 RBL for the dove opener this Sept.1st That came and went. Then I hoped for pheasant season I made four trips to North Dakota in Oct. and Nov. still no RBL.

Now I'm holding out hope for Christmas, but not holding my breath!

Remember their advertizing hype last Christmas about ordering at that time for a great gift. The way things are going those that got a galazan gift card for an RBL last Christmas will be lucky to see it by Christmas 2007!

Ordered mine PIF on 11/29/05. I called yesterday and they told me January-February. In July they told me October. In October they told me year-end. They said they are now working on guns that were ordered in early November 05. If 23pair ordered in September and is just now receiving his gun,I'm not optimistic about getting mine before Easter. I've been one of the patient ones throughout this process, but I'm getting steamed now. This is ridiculous.

Woody I'm with you.
I too have kept my mouth shut and given them a good deal of understanding that this is a new production and some latitude would be required. HOWEVER this has gotten to the point where the info I was given when ordering by deposit in 9/05 has crossed over the line to misleading given that if the PIF orders are heading to spring "07" god only knows where my lowly deposit order sits.

This combined with the used car dealer B.S attitude I have gotten when calling " Lou" on a couple of their used guns leaves me wondering why I want to have anything to do with these guy's.

There are too many nice SXS's out there to enjoy owning to end up with one that I resent because of the buying process.

23PAIR,

My RBL arrived about 10 days ago and the matteless rib is very reminicent of the Churchill rib on my 1930' vintage Thomas Turner and Son. It too has a shiny polished rib although some engraving near the breach.

Hairy

?

jack

Joe(23Pair), sorry to hear about the "details". It would mean that the gun wasn't even
assembled before shipping or they would have noticed the top lever rubbing against the wood.

My intention starting this thread was to hear about happy recipients of their Christmas
gifts, but....

JC(AL)

I read somewhere of someone else having the same issue of the finish being rubbed off. They sent it back and it was done in a day. If you haven't dones so already give them a call. They'll correct it with no hassle. Shouldn't have to in the first place but at least it will be taken care of.

The rib on my Grade II Ugartechea is not matted. Like the RBL it has a concave rib.

99% of British and continental SxS game guns in GB have a swamped, tapered and un-matted rib.

Jonty

Let's see, Westley Richards, Lefever, H.A. Lindner, W.& C. Scott, Parker Brothers, McComas, Cogswell and Harrison, all smooth unmatted ribs. Some less expensive double guns such as Iver Johnson, Stevens, Winchester Model 24, were probably crudely matted or grooved because that was easier and less expensive than leveling an unmatted rib.

The ribs of BSS sidelock were not matted. AyA no. 2 rib not matted but some squiggles at the breech. Ancient Flues 4E factory swamp rib? You guessed it, not matted. Did Conn. Shotgun spec a matting option or did you assume it would be? Number 1 among the reasons, given my immense talent for taking my own ideas and previous experience for granted, that I prefer to see the firestick B4IBUY. The distinction between bespoke and cookie cutter potluck also appears to be regaining some strength among the "devout". The one thing that prevents this gun from being a production gun is the missed window of production. Are they making their 30 per month? Sad to see the funereal atmosphere on ground where so may pep rallys have been held. However, I can now hold my own party: Coming to your consignment rack soon--the fabulous RBL!

jack

Heck, I just paid to have the rib unmatted, swamped (as much as possible) and polished on a Sterlingworth 20g custom project I'm doing. I love that look!

And that, my friend, is the $64,000 question. I asked it, along with "how many orders are in front of mine?". The response: "We don't comment on current or future production volume". The second question was ignored.

My interperetation of the answer: "It's none of your business when you'll get the product you've already paid in full more than a year ago. We'll get to you when we get to you. Just leave your $2,900+ in our bank account until then. Or, if you don't like it, you can cancel your order."

My response: I cancelled my order. I may have been willing to wait for a realistic delivery date, even if it were distant, but I'm not willing to put up with being given "the brush off" when they've got a lot of my money (to me, anyway) in the bank.

Bob Blair has the right idea. When involved in a custom project, the most heartbreaking roadblock is a well worn part that can't easily be made whole by a competent gunsmith or engraver. The best thing to do with a worn, pitted, abused, or poorly refinished matted rib is to file it smooth, real smooth.

JC,
No chance for a Christmas delivery here, but Q1 07 is looking good according to the Oracle of New Britain.

I've called twice in 12 months, once to modify my order to double triggers (www.gunshop.sandbox influenced ) and last week for a status check.

Patience is the name of the game. And a little more patience if you dare call!

JC(AL)

People have been reporting problems with their RBLs. Makes me wonder if it is worth the wait? maybe yank the money and get a custom Beretta from Cole Gun?

I inquired early in November as to my 10-12-05 order, was told "that it has just gone into the shop, you should see it in 3 to 4 weeks, please fax your ship to FFL". That was 6 weeks ago. Thankfully Grouse season is open till the end of January. Christmas is almost here, I have a new pup due in about six weeks and the wife wrecked the car Monday morning. So I'm preoccupied, but when February rolls around there had better be a new RBL in the safe or it'll be canceled and put towards something else. Even if I do manage to actually receive this gun, I'll certainly never buy sight unseen again. A Cole Special....not a bad idea ! Merry Christmas everybody !!

A couple weeks shy of 15 months after my paid in full order, and still nothing. At this point I'm not holding out any hope of a delivery by Christmas. I havn't called to ask about a delivery date, and of course I havn't heard a peep out of CSM/Galazan. It's funny to me that when someone posts a critical comment about the long delay and lack of communication, someone almost always defends CSM/Galazan. Likewise, when people post about problems with a gun received, there is always someone willing to comment about how CSM fixes problems with their new RBLs propmtly, great customer service, etc. I can recall Ruger getting the S**T kicked out of them by some folks on this board and the SSM board when it took too long to bring the Gold Label to market, or how the wood to metal fit wasn't perfect on the GL or the wood was proud, etc, etc. It's funny how Ruger got beat up and down about issues with the Gold Label, but when it comes to the RBL, suddenly it's "well, it's a 2500 - 3000 shotgun, you can't expect it to be perfect". I will cancel my order at the end of the month, and I won't look back. With upgrades I spent almost 3500 on my RBL, and there are plenty of high quality guns on the market in the same price range. I'm sure that I'll get flamed for making critical comments, but there has to be a few folks out there who agree with me. There, now I've vented and I feel better.

Tom, You are welcome to look over my RBL and handle one before you cancel your order. I can meet you at the club or somewhere in town when you are in DuBois. Certainly not trying to show it off but I thought you would like to see one up close. Call me, I'm around most evenings or during the day in the office since deer season is over. I'm in the Yellow Pages. I hope your wife wasn't hurt in her accident! Joe Z.

Ray,

I am not far behind you. A couple of months ago when I was at CSMC I asked about my deposit order from 9/29/05 and I was told by Lou that they were delivering about 50 guns a week and that I could expect to here from them as early as the end of november. That was not the first time that I was told by CSMC that they wer going to deliver 50 guns per week either. If they are not even finished with Sept. & Oct. orders paid in full, then where does that leave the rest of us. I ordered mine with all of the bells and whistles so the price is over 4K. There are lots of guns that you can have for that kind of money.

Bill G.

Dr. Z, How did you manage to get yours first!! I'll take you up on that offer one of these days soon. The wife is a bit brusied but functional, much more than I can say for our dearly departed S-2000. Doing any good in the Grouse coverts? Flush rates are up in most of my favorite haunts. You and the family have a Great Holiday if I don't see you before.

Patience Guys! Patience!

You really haven't been waiting for 15 months, they told you up front that deliveries would start in (memory issue) April 2006? or was it May? Well, if it was April and it is now December that looks like 7 months to me. I called some time back and was told it was in the shop and that 3 to 4 weeks was likely for a shipping date. Then called again about 9 weeks later and got the same answer. Then 10 days later got the call from Carol and 5 days later picked up the RBL at my dealer's shop. Don't be so recent generation American here guys. Instant gratification isn't everything. Patience is a virtue and the anticipation is like the journey not the destination. I guess I am glad the Mrs. ordered mine when she did and not two weeks ago. They do handle nicely.

Hairy

Hey now, at age 35 I am not sure which generation I fit into, but I will say that I guarantee that my grandfather and his buddies would not have stood quietly while getting brushed off by someone that had a bunch of their money. Don't think it is a generational thing. CSMC could garner all kinds of patience if only they would explain what they are up to and ask for it.

I think the delay is outrageous. Anyone who hasn't gotten a gun ordered before...say... 12/28/05 should cancel their order immediately.

FWIW - I was told four weeks ago that my order would would be ready March or April. I was told approx. one year at time of order so it'll be three to four months late if they don't fall further behind. As long as it's to me by September 2007 I really don't care. I think it's the guys that were expecting to shoot it this season who are most PO'd - somewhat understandably.

It looks to me, from order dates posted, that there were a lot of Sept./Oct. orders and a thinner number after the introduction.

Tom,
Oooo-fa ! an S-2000 Glad the Mrs is OK.

I really couldn't care about the time outlay> I'm concerned about the quality. How would those who have received their RBL rate them? Wood to metal, metal to metal finish? How about the wood quality? I was comcerned when I ordered exhibition wood because on the video it didn't look like exhibition to me. When I called CSMC I was told it look better in life than on the computer. Is this a true story?

No dog in the fight however, if everyone was aware of the delay to initial deliveries, H. Clipper is correct about the basic timeline and waiting period. If CSMC has overreached in their promises and continues to do so, they have at the minimum a problem with candid disclosure and communication. Failure to complete pending contracts is as much an unthinkable option for CSMC as it is for buyers with money on the line. Let's hope they muddle thru and you all get your guns.

jack

I think they are muddlers of the first order.

Building a new, $2500 or so SXS double shotgun isn't as easy as it would seem, apparently. Both Ruger, and CSM have discovered a force to be reckoned with, and that doesn't even consider the customers, my own observation being they can be more mercurial with each passing day, some starting as cheerleaders, and ending as mercenarys. Whew.
Glad I, 1. Didn't say it could be done. 2. Didn't say I could do it. Good luck to both companies.
Best,
Ted

See, I didn't told you so! Good one, Ted.

jack

'Tis The Season to Be Jolly.

JC(AL)

I had a prior disappointing transaction with Galazan's, but put my money down anyway. I was told a year for delivery from my 12/05 order. Expected and still expect it will be more like 18 months ... won't be impatient unless it takes 20+. Won't contact them for an update. Delays in producing a quality new gun are no surprise.

What's surprising is hearing (on this board and elsewhere) that their public voice man is now so impatient with questions that he quickly suggests to customers that they can cancel if they don't like the wait. Flatly stating that your business isn't important to them takes muddling deep into the goo!

One of the things that really gripes me about how Galazans has dealt with this, was the promise they made for priority delivery for those Paid in Full.

I stated earlier in this thread I have a PIF 9-28-05 order. I now know of at least two dozen RBL's delivered that were ordered several day's or weeks after I placed my order.

I have talked to Carol about this and got what I call the company line from her. Quote: Sometimes there is a production problem with a gun that holds it up in line and rather than holding up other guns we deliver those that are finished first. Your's may be one of those that got held back for some reason.

That was 10-18-06 and now there have been several that I know of delivered since then that were ordered after mine. I asked Carol if she could ask if mine was held up for some reason and if I could get an approximate time line for delivery. Her responce was "I have no way of getting any information, all I can tell you is your gun is in the shop". That was eight weeks ago!

That was a better response that what I got from Lou the last time I talked to him. A week before the 10-18-06 conversation with Carol I called and tried to speak with Carol. She was busy so I asked to speak to Lou. I told Lou that I was calling about my RBL order now that I had passed the one year mark for my order. I'll try and Quote him: "I have nothing to do with the RBL and have no information for you, You will need to talk to Carol, if you have a September order call back in a week and you may be pleasently surprised". That was nine weeks ago!

I'm trying to be patient, but it's getting harder to be with every week that passes and the more guns I see delivered that were ordered after mine!

Yeti, more details about your order, please. What are you getting, what is your priority date, and did you PIF?

I'm waiting for a PIF order with an 11/30 date.

dogon, we are essentially in the same place. All I can say, is that I wish you get your 9/28 PIF order before I receive my 9/30 PIF order. It's truly difficult for me to believe that CMSC isn't playing "footsie" here with order priority dates. Priority was advertised by CMSC to mean something. Apparently it doesn't mean a damn thing to them now.

Zircon,
12/20/05, PIF, 14 3/4" straight stock with splinter forend, exb black walnut, case colors, 2 triggers.

I bet Lou isn't getting commission on RBLs - it's the only answer I can think of to explain his BS.

So CSMC struggled (struggling?) with getting the production line up and running - I expected such delays, as I worked on the periphery of manufacturing for 15 years. In my brain I added 20% to their 1 year delivery estimate.

That CSMC is not prepared for the front office issues of dealing directly with several thousand simultaenous buyers - could've been just as easily predicted but I didn't see it coming. Tony excluded the distribution layer and it's not working.

As one of the so-called CSMC cheerleaders, I'm speechless at Bill G's story.

If that had happened to me I'd be madder than a raped ape. Luckily for Lou, Bill's a gentleman - so Lou didn't have wake up on the floor with loose teeth and dusty arse.

I've gotten to the point where I am debating regardless of the potential "value" that the RBL MAY represent if I want to own anything that represents this pack of liars.

At what point does one's pride of ownership override the dollar value, handling and manufacturing characteristics of a gun.

Lou has flat out lied to me on more than a couple of occasions regarding the RBL and twice I have inquired on Model 21's they have advertised only to have the Cody records come back clearly different than what CSMC had put in print about the guns.
Lou asked me one time with attitude what I needed the serial numbers for.

Bottom line. If Saddam made a line of fine SXS's that doesn't mean
I would want to own or carry one.

I have seen absolutely no sign of a man of character that the Tony Band wagon says they have dealt with in the past.

Like Yeti, I've supported CSM in the past. I might be classified as one of the chearleaders also. All this was based on their treatment of me and Builder during our May trip to their shop. Tony and Lou were very gracious hosts and spent quite a bit of their likely busy day with us. More than both Builder and I would have guessed. Many of you may recall I posted a series of pics of the mfg processes of the RBL.

At this time I'm seriously considering cancelling my Sept 05 deposit order for a straight stocked, BTFE, exhibition Turkish, SST, assisted openner, coin finished RBL, with a $4k sticker.

There are about 5 reasons/concerns that are weighing on my mind, in no particular order of greater or lessor concern;

1) my friend bought a RBL and it has checkering that looks like the computerized woodburning machine malfunctioned. It's all black and deeply recessed below the finished surface. The lines look like they went haywire is about all I can say. In large areas on the forend, "checkering" is not an appropriate word to describe this 'Hasbro woodburning set rendition' of the art. It is so bad and deeply cut on the forend that I don't honestly beleive it can be recut unless the entire finished surface is lowered and metal reset deeper. I would have preferred it had pressed checkering like a '60s 870 pump which can be recut or nothing. This is the most obscene visual feature I've seen on a gun over $2k.

2) The "engraving" on my friend's gun was nothing like the quality of the prototypes I held in Vegas and New Britain. It looked much shallower and then buffed over, especially on the barrels. I'd prefer no engraving whatsoever to this scratching they're calling "engraving".

3) Two guns I've seen now, that were ordered with Turkish exhibition, looked very much like upper midgrade flamey fiddleback Claro. Neither were anywhere near my expectation of a yellow or grayish base color streaked with black lines, quite a bit of black line figure is my expectation for "exhibition". I can't conclusively 'prove' these guns are not Turkish, but I'm buying the gun and my expectation is balanced against my decision to spend the money. So, proving anything is not necessary for me to make a conclusion.

4) For $4,000, I can find plenty of other guns that are of better overall quality in all respects.

5) Customer handling has been much less than stellar and appears to be some customer's worst nightmare. I'm worried that if I get the gun, I'll not be treated well if I have any problems with my order. Either Tony is unaware of some of the things that are going on or condones them. I don't know which. It does't make any difference when you're on the recieving end of bad treatment.

There. I've said it.

BTW, I have no gripe with their delivery schedule. I find this to still be within what I expected would happen. I have not called on my delivery schedule and didn't ask about delivery when at CSM in May. I figure they should take their time to get these guns right, since I want a gun to keep. Apparently, this they are rushing to get these out and quality is suffering.

So, I've got a tough decision to make. My overwelming reason for ordering this gun was that I wanted a well made modern 20g sxs that was American made.

Chuck let me know what you decide. I'm in the same boat as you, and will probably go with what ever you decide. I don't mind waiting, but I expect a gun that will match the expepectations that CMSC has trumped up so much. Remember, "You get what you pay for does not apply to the RBL." (RBL Video)
-Improved Modified

My PIF was 12/28/05, for straight 14-1/4" stock with splinter, DT, French gray, 3X black or claro (their choice). I have only called once, and was told in October or so to expect December delivery. No contact since then, but I don't expect to see the gun before Spring. If it's not up to snuff from a quality standpoint, I'll have my FFL ship it back to CSMC for a refund. I'll be out shipping costs and the time value of my money, but as gambling goes this seems like a reasonable play. If I haven't received the gun by August (20 months after payment) I will almost certainly cancel and move on.

Chuck,
Re the burnt checkering - your description sounds much worse than similar Italian examples - I've seen laser cut burntish checkering where the valleys are black. I couldn't leave my Rizzini B as-is because of it and pointed up (valleyed down?) the checkering. But the checkering layout was perfect, as expected when cut by computer controlled lasers. No excuse for CSMC.

It takes me a long time to change my mind - I decided on two triggers 2 weeks after ordering but hemmed and hawed for 6 months before committing - so we'll see when and what CSMC delivers.

I hoped that everyone who took the gamble would be well pleased and that the project was both legitimate and feasible. My bet, however, was that even if this wasn't an outright con problems would be serious. I said as much, and nobody agreed. "Tony's a great guy, they make great guns, etc.."

My opinion of CSMC was based on ONE attempt to buy a gun from them where the play was made to 'double close' me. From my viewpoint, there was not even an option to send any cash to fund the RBL project - the business had disqualified themselves with prior questionable practices. Without this prior contact, I would likely have looked seriously at placing an order. What was promised was a GREAT value (if legitimate), and it looks like a large number of enthusiasts were indeed hooked and reeled in.

Following so closely on the heels of the ICD disaster and the Gold Label delay (and subsequent suspension of production), I was surprised to be almost alone in the skeptic camp when the first ad hit the press. Now, with even the diehards jumping ship or thinking about doing so, I gotta wonder what's the next pie-in-the-sky deal to come down the road?

I may not always be right, but PT Barnum is difficult to refute.

I'll admit that I was getting a little impatient, and communication could have (should have) been better; but after putting 20+ boxes thru mine over the last month, I'm glad I was "hooked and reeled in".

Chuck H.
Well stated! I remember your posts about your visit and tour of CSMC. I was very impressed by what your observations were at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember correctly one of your concerns at the time was the lack of trained craftsmen actualy working there. I have wondered ever since if this isn't the major problem with production of the RBL.

I have been prepared all along for production delays and expected them. I would not have any problem at all if I was communicated with in an up-front truthful manner, and the guns that are being delivered were in the order that they were paid for.

Unfortunately this is not the case! Now that Chuck has jogged my memory and pointed out some flaws with the delivered guns added to my experiences and frustrations with Galazans, I'm considering cancelling my order.

I truly wanted to see a new American made side by side be a great success story and put my money up to help make it happen. Tony now has had my money "almost $4000.00" for fifteen months and here I sit thinking about getting it back.

What a shame!

I have to agree with Shooting Star. Communications with customers could/should have been better, but the final product was, for me, well worth the wait. Complaints from some about "smooth ribs" and "proud wood" (I didn't realize these were automatically faults) aside, the RBL seems to be a pretty good value for a machine made gun. I've had mine a month and had to send it back for repair of an ejector, but even so the work was done correctly and the gun shipped back to me in less than 24 hours complete with apologies from the much-maligned Lou.

The pattern here seems to be if you <ever> get a gun, CSM seems to take care of you.

Absent the delivery of the gun, even though you might have $3-4K worth of cash on the line, the treatment does not seem to be very good. Piss poor communications, promises that aren't kept, order priorities that haven't been kept as promised, delivery dates that aren't maintained, early problems with not getting what was advertised, and now, the most disconcerting of all, Chuck's observations that the quality is sorely lacking.

Is anyone at CSMC reading this thread? If you are, ya'll better listen up. These are your customers who have hard cash on the line talking. Don't think of us as a pain in the ass, we're paying your wages. I hear legitimate gripes here. Your reputation is at stake. Don't blow it now.

I must admit I found the ads tempting but it did seem "too good to be true". I didn't order a gun because I NEVER pay in advance for anything. Almost every time I have done so I have regretted it, so I don't do it any more. Not home remodeling, not vacations, and certainly not guns that don't exist yet. Those fat deposits are baloney considering this is not a bespoke gun. More reasonable to ask for a progress payment once a gun was ready for it's final "custom" features (wood, finish, triggers).

I see they are still taking orders, through Dec 31st. Makes no sense to me to shut it down after that date unless they are losing money on them and have an inventory to burn off.

Nor does it make sense that they are still advertising for new customers when the ones they have are mad as snakes over delays. Maybe they need the deposit money. (And the rather large discount they offered for full payment in advance tells me they owe, they owe, they owe.)

Having said that, I must say I admire their bravery for taking on a project like this. A brand new sxs gun made in the USA for a lot less money than a similar AYA. These guys must really love making guns.

You guys with deposits, just PRAY the outfit doesn't go belly up (like Dakota and almost every other US gunmaker except Ruger and Remington)...in that case you won't have your gun or your money.

Getting back to Ruger, I recently read an article, I believe it was in SS about their dilemma. Which is understandable-NOW. Their only problem was they were advertising the gun about three years+ before it came out. Plus there was some smart a$$ girl who worked there who was telling customers over the phone that it wasn't coming out......... Getting back to Brad, the original poster- what about the ordeal with the Model 21s and you checking with the Cody Museum? Were the way that they were advertised different from the Cody letters and they were saying they were original? Could you elaberate or that? Thanks.

The folks at VISA told me if the company failed to produce a product in my hands that the purchase would be covered under their fraud protection and I would only be out $50.00. Obviously since my RBL has been delivered and I am very happy with mine this is not be an issue. If you are really worried about your cash, perhaps they would refund your $$$ and you could pay with your plastic to cya.

Hairy

Jimmy,

I will gladly PM you about the deceptions I have encountered with CSMC.

Brad

Hairy,
I'm not so worried that I won't get a gun as worried it's going to be of poor quality checkering and engraving and also that the wood species of their choice will be represented as 'Turkish exhibition' no matter my expectation or opinion. Basically, I've lost faith that CSM still has that high standard of quality I saw when I was there in May.

Chuck H,

I can understand the concerns of quality as a result of postings on this and other boards. Many times in life those that are disappointed in something may not have had realistic expectations of what was going to happen. Now, that having been said, I am not putting you in that group. But that situation, as well as those who have axes to grind and will do what they can to stir the pot, can be found just about anywhere. They would even complain if they were hung with a new rope! Just as a reference point, I do not know Tony Galazan. My only business dealings with his company has been my RBL and I do have other SXSs to compare the RBL to and the list includes: Winchester Model 21 two barrel set, Arietta 871 two barrel set, Parker Reproduction two barrel set, Ruger Gold Label, Thomas Turner and Son, Webley 728, Browning BSS, Remington 1894, Merkel Model 8, Bernadelli Gamecock DeLuxe, L.C. Smith Field, a couple of Huskies. I place these in no special order except those which I can remember without going to look. I can honestly say there are those here who have much more experience in doubles than I have, many with much deeper pockets than myself. However, my RBL is here, I am very pleased with what arrived, and before I would worry too much about it, I would wait and see what it looks like when it shows up. Then, do your usual evaluation and if it is not worth keeping either send it back and demand a refund or put it on GUN BROKER.COM.

Hang in there Kid!
Hairy

I had the chance to inspect an RBL in person, and my answer to your question is an unqualified "NO".

The overall fit and finish were nice, but there were 2 things I didn't like:

1. The engraving; the advertising pics showed guns that had been hand engraved by Richard Roy, and they are gorgeous. The engraving is deep, sharp and crisp, the shadowing made it even better. The shipped guns' engraving is MUCH less attractive, IMO. I felt it a HUGE drop-off from what was promised in the ads. The French Gray receiver also looked better in the ads than in person.

I can understand that they only had hand-engraved guns when the ad campain started, but if you look at current RBL ads, they're still showing the hand-engraved guns, not the machine-engraving that you'll really get. VERY dissappointing, if not downright misleading. Again IMO.

2. The stock finish. VERY shiny - it looked like it has about 1/2" of plastic on the stock. I guess that means the finish is deep; again, this may be more reflective of my taste than a critique of the gun.

Bottom line - Between CSMC's lack of communication with customers, quality control issues, and my disappointment with the finished product, I cancelled my order and spent it on another SxS that is hand-engraved, has nicer wood with a nicer finish, and best of all is in my hand for about $100 less than CSMC had been sitting on for over a year.

While I agree that the communication was poor I am happy with the weapon. I am still using the 471 as the benchmark since these were $2688 at Jaquas in Sept 2005 when I ordered. For me the gun still seems to be a better deal, the greyed receiver ended up looking similar to the ads and I am happy with the machined engraving.

Seems like the guys with guns are a lot happier than those who haven't gotten them. I ordered "late" on purpose as I wanted to see production guns before mine was made, paid with a credit card which limited my risk and got me another Gander Mountain rebate and was/am prepared to be patient.

I've had little communication with CSMC. I changed my order and asked for an approx. delivery date. I really have no opinion of their service as yet.

Other than some stock fit issues on two guns where the lever hit the wood and the initial engraving, which was incomplete and unattractive, I've seen few pics of problems. When people to get their guns I'd hope to see pics of any issues. So far what I've seen has looked pretty good. I didn't order Turkish but I agree with Chuck that what I've seen referred to as Turkish doesnt look it.

I do hope someone at CSMC reads these boards. It may not be fun at the moment but it would provide them with customer input and feedback that most concerns would have to pay for.

I received the following today:

First let me state we have deliverd 100's of guns at this point. Each week the actual amount of shipped guns goes up. We hope to have all guns delivered by the end of 2007,but our main goal is the quality of our product and if it takes longer so be it. Each gun requires a lot of hand work by our master gunsmiths to make sure they are up to our standards, there is no way around that. The comments must not be coming from actual owners of RBLs, the feedback that we get is extremely positive. If someone is not happy we would do whatever it takes to satisfy them, that has always been our policy.

The checkering is near perfect. It is done by a laser that is state of the art ans was built special for us to use on the RBL. As a matter of fact, it is so good we had the engineer program in inconsistancies so that it would replicate checkering by hand as it was too uniform. Wood is subjective, but I can tell you that a committe of 3 people review the wood after the wood is on the gun to make sure it is the grade and quality that the customer ordered. The review is done independantly so no person can influence the other. We have in some cases called the customer and told them that the wood was not the quality that it should be and we would either replace it for them or send it to them with a refund for the quality not being what it should be, so the gun would not be delayed. regarding the engraving, absolutely not true. The engraving that they are receiving is mechanical, as it was on the initial guns that were displayed. The actual quality of the engraving that people are receiving is extremely pleasing to me.

We did upgrade the ejector rods from a spring blade to solid that is installed in a different manner, 6 guns were affected by this problem. The initial guns had an oil/shellac engineered finish that is not as durable as the finish we are putting on now.

There is a lot of gossip and hearsay that we do not respond to, we believe that our customers are satisfied with the product. We strive to produce the best possible shotgun we can. I don't know the percentage, but a lot of people that have received RBLs have ordered a second gun. We do appreciate you coming to us and asking these questions to avoid all of the misinformation that is out there, we welcome these questions by anyone.And of course if you are not satisfied with the gun you are welcome to send it back for a complete refund.

Merry Christmas and God Bless,
Antony Galazan, President
Connecticut Shotgun

I'm willing to give Tony a chance. If things don't work out, he said he would take care of me.

Too bad Tony hasn't sent an equivalent mass-mailing to all of his RBL Customers to explain in more detail(like his letter to IM) his thoughts, frustrations, technical hurdles, and his passion for quality...
IMHO it would have defused a whole bunch of grumbling...

Yes, it would have. Last one was in May.

One very important "Dale Carnegie" rule:

If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.

In Mr. Galazan's letter to IM I only see excuses and self praise: Definetely not what Chuck saw.

Failing to comply with delivery dates and properly treating waiting customers is not admitted and thusly will not be taken care of. I think he could do better. JMTC

JC(AL)

Well, if you think that is bad, I sent a gun off to Goeffroy Gournet to be engraved. It's a year or more out. No firm date, don't call us we'll call you. My DeHaan was ordered 6 months ago, still no sign. RBL? well, you get the picture. But its all part of the deal with a custom/semi-custom gun. waiting, waiting. I know it's hard to wait, but at my house it is wait city! Good thing I have other guns to amuse me.

IM, The gunmaker's clock has never quite synchronized with the Naval Observatory, has it? If all your other guns had arrived on time that Super might not have snuck home!

I've been reading these RBL threads for quite awhile, so I guess it's time for me to put in my 2 cents worth. I can't think of too many gun professionals I deal with, be they engravers, stockmakers, checkering, barrel refinishing, or restoration people who are notorious for quick turn around times. If you were to "sub out" an RBL for each of the above operations, you would probably have at least $5,000 in it and it would take 3 to 5 years to complete. I've done a couple of older American doubles from start to finish. One took 3 years, the other nearly 4. Was it worth the waiting? It didn't seem so at the time, but now that they're done, absolutely - partly because I now have something you can't have tomorrow or even next year, no matter how much money you have. If you can't wait, cancel your order, or better yet, go out and buy something else to get your mind off it. When the RBL arrives, return it, sell it, or sell what you bought in the meantime if you like it better.

Yeti. You are absolutely right! That Super would have stayed at the gun library!

BF, there is a "slight" difference: the RBLs are not made by a squad of the professionals you mention. They are made by machines.

JC(AL)