I just picked up my first (and maybe last) Gun Digest. The Dec. 2006 cover article with picture caught my attention.

I am now in the midst of reading how to defame and devalue a relatively rare (if not old) 8ga hammer gun in some sort of quest for ???????

Obviously this guy thought that peeling the second skin from eight gauge industrial shells was some kind of rocket science. About ten years ago, I peeled a lifetime supply of empties in an evening pleasantly spent at the loading bench. This guy decided to drill out a recess in the chamber of an expensive shotgun instead! He probably paid a bad machinist a small fortune to do the job.

Who knows, maybe there are lots of klins and furnaces to 'clean' in potato land.

I live just south of the Idaho border and yes we have a fair share of kiln guns around here. I can get a lifetime supply of industrial hulls rather easily.

That doesn't change the fact that he ruined a good gun.

According to the article some sort of "master machinist did the work for him........

I guess having the same machinist make him a sizing die for the hulls would have been too hard for this "master".

The Machinist, may or may not, have had knowledge of old guns & their value. He was apparently asked to do the job (haven't read the article). Judge him on the quality of his work. Does anyone have knowledge if it was "Bad" or "Master" quality?? Just because he did a job "WE" would consider undesirable, does not mean he was a "Bad Machinist". To the "Gun Owner" must go the blame for the ruination of the originality of the gun.
Machinist!!

2-piper,

A fair comment and pointing out how easy it is to type something that reads differently than it is meant. I have a friend who can also be described as a "master machinist" and he has made a lot of things for me gun related over the years even though I do not believe he has any real gun related experience.

The "blame" does lie with the writer and his editor for making this a cover story and not with the machinist who did what he was paid to do.

What happened is that he had the machinist rechamber the gun for industrial hulls instead of either peeling or sizing the hulls to make them fit the gun.

I would have peeled a lifetime supply of hulls for him as a favor to a fellow shotgunner. The author's major problem is that he is not a participant on a good double gun website where he can get free information about how to do such things "the right way". We are lucky to have a meeting place to get information. I am grateful to Dave Weber for providing this vehicle for us.

Absolutely Bill.

The other side of that is I would have a lot more money and a lot less guns if I hadn't discovered this site 7-8 years ago.

Not complaining though, the guns are prettier than a bank statement.

There were a bunch more "errors" in this article, not just the buthering of the Tonolini. I may try to email the author thru the magazine website and see if he is willing to have a dialogue about this gun and maybe point him at this website.

Mike, the big error in modifying a gun instead of modifying the shells is that he may end up owning more than one gun. For years, I had one eight gauge gun, made my ammunition to work in that gun. I enjoyed shooting it, not too often, but on a somewhat regular basis. In the last few years, I have acquired four more wonderful eight gauges that I also enjoy shooting, not too often, but on a regular basis. I am still using the empties that I modified, in the sixties, to work in the first eight gauge I owned. Those empties also work in the other four guns. Now I own 30 RMC brass shells that I also use in all five guns. Too bad about the Italian gun that is no longer suitable for RMC empties. I would like to own a Tonolini, but I will leave it as is.

Bill,

I wonder if the gun could be chamber sleeved back to a standard 8ga in the future? I think Brileys has to go down on gauge when they do this type of work.

It also brings up the possibility of firing a kiln gun load in this shotgun. The article states that the kiln loads use "standard shotshell.....propellant" but all of the kiln loads I have pulled apart look like they use a rifle powder similiar in appearance to Win 748 or BLC2. He also thought that the "low velocity" (950fps) kiln loads would be safe in this Tonolini but from the recoil and muzzle blast I have seen when these are fired (in a kiln gun) I wouldn't bet my fingers on it.

I may well be wrong on this, but was of the impression the reason behind these industrial shells construction was so they "Would not" fit a regular 8ga shotgun. Pressures may well be too high for most. Also, "IF" the machinist was knowledgeable enough about guns to know this, I also would call him a "Bad Machinist" for making the mod. No one should do work which could prove to be hazardous. I suspect he simply didn't realize the difference & figured the owner knew what he wanted & did the work.

No point in chamber sleeving it back to anything, since it now is suitable for industrial empties. I'd like to own it just because it is big, cheap, fluid steel and can be loaded with cheap empties that can be tossed since they didn't require any modification to load. I have no curiousity about whether a sporting shotgun will withstand an industrial round. I will experiment with factory loaded industrial rounds when I am able to add a kiln gun to my collection. Does anyone have any idea how that could be accomplished? Thanks to anyone who can help me buy a kiln gun.

Being a frugal bugger (some might mistake for cheap) I made up a few steel bases for 10 guage shells that allow me to reform them into 8 guage. The steel part is 8 guage on the outside and about 3/4" long and after an empty 10 g plastic shell is put in it, I take a metal expander heated in boiling water to stretch the body of the shell to 8 guage dimensions.
I had some paper kiln gun shells but they only last about 2 or 3 shots before powder is leaking out between the brass and the paper. If ever I get some spare time, I intend to make up enough steel bases to shoot a round of skeet with the gun.

cheers Doug

What, you don't have any plastic eight gauge empties? They are common as nails today. I have some papers from the old days, but next batch I load will be plastic, if I ever load any more.

Doug,

How many plastic industrial 8's do you need. It takes some time as I only visit that customer 2-3 times a year but the last time I was there they gave me over 1000 hulls. I think I sent them all to 8ga enthusiasts but I may have a couple of hundred left.

Oops, you're in Canada. That may make it more difficult to get them to you.

There should be no problem shipping to Canada,just put them in a zip lock bag then pack them in a box,send through the mail ,and mark contents as " Empty Hulls " . They should get to Doug within 5 days.

Oops make that "Used Empty Hulls"

Utah Shotgunner; did you recieve a personal message from me?

cheers mooncoon