I'm starting my 10 year old daughter, Stella, shooting this year. She's been shooting at tennis balls with a bb gun for a couple of years now, but this summer she's started firing a shotgun at going away clays. I've got her on a little 28 gauge Spanish SxS. It has 25 inch barrels, a semi beaver tail fore end, pistol grip stock and a 13 1/2 inch LOP over a Pachmeyer Decelerator. We're using AA's, and frankly she doesn't like the recoil which is a little snappy. I'd guess the gun weighs around 5 1/2 lbs. I know Winchester makes a low recoil shell in 12 & 20 gauge, but apparently not in 28. I believe it's the same story with B&P. Can any of you gentlemen recommend the lowest recoiling 28 gauge shells currently available? Before I get some great reloading recipes, let me just say I am not a reloader. Thank you in advance for your help, and sorry if this question doesn't conform to being specifically about double guns. With a farm in Virginia, a good bird dog in the house and access to plenty of birds, Stella has every opportunity to get involved in shooting sports early. I don't want her to get turned off or burned out by uncomfortable recoil.

I would look at RST shells that are made for 2 1/2" guns. They should be lower pressure and be more comfortable to shoot. Sub 6 pound guns are not that much fun to shoot with any loads.

You might be better off using another gun. If you want to keep with the 28 a Remington 1100 would be my first choice. More important to make the shooter comfortable than anything else at this point. I was about to go down this route with my youngest when he picked up one of our Ruger 28 and shot it like it was custom made for him. Saved me buying one more gun for now.

I'll 2nd RSTs.

And of those, the 3/4 oz 2 3/4" 1100 fps load is pretty easy on the shoulder, has a bit more shot than the 2 1/2" 5/8 oz load, and is a buck a box cheaper.

I'd go w/ 8s until she's after live birds, then switch to 7s or 7.5s.

http://www.rstshells.com/shotshells.htm

Until a child reaches sufficient size, strength, and mental desire/toughness, there is nothing you can do. Trying to start too early can put them off for life. If the first learning is that shotguns are not fun, you have made yourself a long, uphill battle. First learnings go really deep.

When the size and strength require a very small and very light gun, you may well be stuck with seriously reduced handloads or abusive recoil (abusive to the child - if she says it is uncomfortable, it is uncomfortable). Stick with what she finds fun to shoot until she grows into shotguns. Take care that your desire for her to shoot doesn't get interperted as a mandated to her.

Consider getting a cheap, used 28 gauge reloader and a few supplies. You may well discover that she enjoys reloading with you - many kids, under proper supervision, do enjoy it.

I agree with Rocketman. 10 years old seems a bit small to start a kid out with a gun unless they are pretty good size. And just because you get a smaller gauged gun, doesn't mean it will be any easier to shoot. You end up compensating shot for recoil and the child will either not be able to hit anything or they will get the heck kicked out of them. I would have started off with a 20 gauge auto or a gun with some type of recoil system that eases recoil. Mainly because the shells are cheaper to buy, easier to find and the reloadable hulls are easier to pick up at the range. So, I would say to start her out slow and have her understand that it will probably be some time before she becomes sufficient. And don't let her become discouraged if she doesn't do well right away. And good luck. Your are a good man to help a child start out the right way.

Would you consider setting the shotgun aside for a couple of years and having her shoot a .22 instead? Lots of fun, a little "bang", yet no punishment. I shoot a 5 1/4 pound twenty-eight and I feel it every time I pull the trigger.

I agree with Jimmy. I have had success with a Charles Daly 20 gauge semi in youth size that is all black (kids like it) and it weighs 5 1/4 lbs. It will probably not stand up to heavy use over many years but it costs around $300 (or it used to cost that much). It has no kick and because it is so light the girls can hold it up without getting tired. Boys can use a heavier gun. I first tried a Franchi (Youth size AL-48 in 28 gauge)with similar weight but it is a recoil operated gun and would leave black and blue marks on the shoulder of girls. I sold it. A gas operated gun is the way to go and the Rem 1100 is way too heavy for a girl.

My reply was aimed @ the question regarding the lowest recoiling 28 ga shells available.

If another gun is an option, I'd suggest a SxS or O/U 20 ga w/ the Fiocchi Trainer loads. Much easier to teach proper gun safety w/ a break open gun vs an auto, and if she ever pinches a finger in the action of an auto, she will be done shooting for sure...

I would say based upon my own experiences growing up that a 20 ga. kicks a lot more than a 28 using RST shells. Starting with a .22 is okay as long as you take the time and patience to explain the difference between aiming a rifle and shooting a shotgun.... I think a 28 ga. is perfect for most learning to shoot without sufficient practice at sports requiring upper body strength and that gun can be used for a lifetime.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. This is all good advice.

I'm not averse to trying an autoloader in youth size, but I'll give the RST's a try first. Does anyone know the LOP on these youth autos?

The 28 is an old gun my dad gave me years ago, but the barrels were so short I had the stock cut down and a pad put on for my wife. I didn't buy it for my daughter, so not concerned about getting my money out of it or making her use it. She does already shoot a .22 for plinking.

I also couldn't agree more with Rocketman and others here regarding forcing v.s fun. Stella's pretty game as far as trying new things, but as soon as she says she doesn't like something we stop. That's why we haven't shot since I first tried her with the AA's. I will say she does have pretty good upper body strength for her age, as my disciplinary technique for the kids invloves them doing pushups.

I'll give the RST's a try and let the board know how it turns out. Worst thing that can happen is she just puts off shotgunning for another year. Thanks again, and I hope everyone is off to a good bird season.

I watched with total amazement a 9 or 10 yr old, very small for her age, oriental granddaughter of a well respected elder at our range, shoot with her grandpa and a squad of regular elders...and she shot with the best of them. This was a number of yrs ago. The little girl was truly a tiny person, as small as someone half her age. Her grandpa had Joe Shiozaki cut down a Huglu O/U .410 on the barrels and stock. It was cyl/cyl of course, when done. I disagree with those that say a .410 is a hinderence or deterent for new shooters because of the difficulty in connecting a shot with such a small pattern. I've witnessed a few great success stories in shooters going on to become avid enthusiasts in our sport. I've never seen the downside of shooters starting with a .410, but I suppose it's out there. I think each new shooter has to be evaluated for which would be worse, the added difficulty in connecting with a .410 or recoil as a deterent.

I say move her down to a .410

Yeah, well, Chuck, your are a 410 kind of guy! I like em too, BUT: Last weekend we had a bunch of family out to do onerous jobs, and my Stepdaughter brought along a 12 year old who had never, NEVER fired a gun. When we had a break (dont give em many) went out to my clays range. Started the kid with a 28, couldnt hit his a** with both hands. Put a 12 Double with some Joe Wood lite specials in his hands and he broke 11 straight..."Nuttin to it" he says...and there went 2 2lb coffee cans of loads...NEAT!

Not sure where you would find them now, but Armusa produced a light 28 ga sporting clays load with only 5/8 oz of shot. I bought some a few years ago and they feel like .410s.

I recall those 28g Armusa loads. Very light.

Chuck, are all the chores done? I'm driving to SoDak again this yr in Oct and want to know if it's safe to drop by. I recall about 25 yrs ago, stopping by a friend's place in Manatou Sprgs and having worked for a week on roofing up at 9000ft alt. Pretty tuff on a flatlander like me.

Eley Grand Prix 28 bore ammo is 9/16th ounce and Lyalvale Express, if you can get them, do a 14 gram (1/2 ounce) load. I use both the great effect in an AyA double. Lagopus.....

We train our 4-H Field & Stream club pre-teens using Daly and Beretta 303 youth models 20 gauges, with Federal Top Gun target shells. We have several in the 10 - 11 years old, and none have indicated a problem with recoil. We start them off with going away clays on the skeet range (Stn 7), then once they have the hang of those, we next do the incomer from the high house. And all of our kids progress from the skeet range to the dove fields come September.

I have found that response to apparent recoil has a lot to do with the type/style instruction given (we use the 4-H method which is peculiar for youngsters) as well as size/weight of shotgun/ammo so long as the shotgun is a fair fit. In my many years as a shotgun instructor, I have found that poor fit is probably the major reason for discomfort due to recoil.

Jim Haynes

Locust, I would echo what a few above have said. Go Slow. My son showed a real affinity for guns. A good shot with a pellet gun and a 22 before he was ten. Liked to shoot a lot.
When he was about ten or eleven I had him start with a youth 1100 in 20ga. He shot it quite well at first. Then he got rather spotty. He would break 5-10 straight at trap then drop a few then hit one drop a few more ending up with 15s and such.

I put him in a trapshooting youth group which shot once a week. One of the guys who was coaching noticed almost immediately that Craig was flinching on many of his shots. I immediately had him quit shooting shotguns at the range. Went back to the pellet gun and 22. After a year or so I let him go back to a shotgun but only had him shoot starting with a low gun in sporting clays and hunting.

He is a now 14 and fairly good shot and loves to hunt but he is not really "into" shotguns. He does not want to go to the range and shoot much.

I know it is hard as can be to wait, especially for years. But it is almost impossible to undo bad experiences. How many of us have ever seen a dog who was improperly introduced to guns get over gunshyness?

Go slow. Shooting BB guns and pellet guns is excellent, especially if she really likes it.

My daughter got a Beretta Auto in 20 gauge. Everything went well until she shot in a turkey shoot and put every one out, including several handicap shooters. They gave her 9$ but not a turkey, she has never shot since. I would have paid for 10 turkeys in I could get the time back.
jas

It was the kid model and has virtually no recoil.

Jas,
That was a crappy thing they did, not giving her a turkey. The other adults worth their salt that had won a turkey should have volunteered theirs. I recall a similar situation where custom spurs and buckles were being given out at a banquet after a 150 mile horse ride. Some young teenage girls had ridden the trail for a week and they were short on spurs. A few of us gave up ours. I still don't have a set after giving up mine. That was 2003. Those girls were smiling pretty big when they got those spurs, though.

Tell about that Morgan.