Whats the general feeling about opening up the chokes on a older gun?
what I've got is a 20 gauge Ithaca (Western arms /circa.1930) in good shape, locks up tight with good blue and decent wood, one of those carried allot but not shot much type of shotguns.
Trouble is it's choked mod/full which would be fine if this were thirty some years ago and I was busting ducks with lead shot.
I'm mainly going to use it for informal clays and maybe some light upland work so IC/mod would be about the tight as I would want and Skeet/IC probably even better.
OK idea or leave it alone?
Sounds like your minds already made up. I'd pattern both barrels at 25,30 and 35 with several shot sizes. You might change your mind.
In a 'real world' hunting gun what's wrong with a mod/full combination ?
L.F.
Go for it. Send it to Mike Orlean, he does a super job.
Your gun was made to be used. Open the chokes to what you want and enjoy it. I opened the chokes on 2 of my Parkers, because they are my designated grouse guns. Didn't do me any good, choked Mod. and Full.
I agree with Homelessjoe, I would first try patterning the gun at different yards and also with different loads, either reloads or factory and see which one gives the best patern for what you like. If you don't see what you like, then I would go for opening the chokes.
My notion is no choke at all for 90 per cent of hunters 90 per cent of the time.
A couple of years ago I wrasseled with this same dilemma. A Fox A grade c1910 choked M/F I had opened to S1/IC. I now use the gun quite frequently as oppossed to not at all prior to the modification. Although I still feel pangs of guilt about altering and original configuration. So much so that I won't do another gun. Instead I've simply adjusted my philosophy of buying shooters and only buy those with the configuration I want. They are out there. I recently picked up a nice Lefever H 2 1/2" choked IC/F for upland. Who knows, this might have been altered---but not by me. So if you can handle the guilt..................
I had Mike Orlen open up the chokes on an old LC Smith Field Grade several years ago. Prior to doing so I ask the same question as you and I received pretty much the same responses.
What I learned from the process is this: open the right barrel to what ever you want, and I would suggest IC or Skeet but have the left barrel be a little tighter than you think you want. I hunt in nothern Michigan and I think that IC or Skeet is good for the left barrel and IM is perfect for the left barrel.
The important thing to remember is you can never go back and have more choke put in so opt for a little tighter in the left barrel. It can always be opened more later if need be.
Ok - First things first - The gun is a Western Arms. Although made by Ithaca , it is not an Ithaca, but rather a bottom - of-the -line "price point" gun for those who didnt have the coin or inclination to buy an Ithaca Lefever. That is not to say that it is not a " good and serviceable " arm, ( to quote Whitneys catalogue describing his price point guns) but don't muddy the waters.
Unless the gun is practically perfect, it has little collectors value, although I have seen astronomical prices set as reserves at auction recently. This leaves the issue to one of utility. If you are shooting informal clays and upland game with it, then by all means make the chokes fit your use. That being said, do pattern the gun with your favorite loads and see what percentage you are getting. You might also try patterns with cheap soft shot loads as well. If the patterns you get are too tight for your use, then send the gun to Mike Orlen and get the tubes opened. Never look back and have fun.
As an aside, I have had Orlen open chokes for me - his work is outstanding, turn-around fast, prices fair.
Regards
GKT
WB,
I'm doing a 20g about the same vintage as yours. If you need someone to do the work locally, Bob Day did some choke work for Jim Legg and he was pleased with the work. His shop is in Pico Rivera.
http://www.americhoke.com/Also, Possibly Les Pittman in La Habra may do choke work. He bent a stock for my last year and I was pleased with the work.
How are chokes opened?
Most original chokes are a straight taper that start anywhere from 4-2" back from the muzzle, out to the muzzle. When a choke is opened is that taper changed?
I asked this question once before and still am not clear. The impression I got was that a parallel section is reamed after the taper, from the muzzle back. This would open the choke but also shorten the choke cone.
Suppose your gun had a choke cone that was 4" long and .030 choke that went from .729 down to .699 along that 4". Mike opens the gun up to .010 choke. Is the cone still 4" long but with a different angle of tapered cone? Or do you have a shorter cone that tapers at the same angle and then a parallel section out to the muzzle?
Thanks, Rob
I have one of those BOTLWACI (bottom of the line Western Arms Corporation Ithaca) guns. I haven't opened the chokes on my 16 because it's a turkey killer with #6 lead, good with #6 an #5 TM on ducks, and seems(?, not patterned, the horror) to do fine (blows pattern?) with #6 & #7 steel for small birds (teal/snipe) at about 25 yards. I can/do make spreader loads for it, too.
That said, I wouldn't hesitate to open the chokes if it was going to be my main quail gun or "brush" gun. It's too (barrel) heavy for that, though.
Rob,
The majority of choke work is done by simply openning the choke resulting in a straight section that is longer than the original, while not touching the tapered section. IMO, the length of the cone is not as important as the angle. So, yes the tapered section becomes shorter.
Originality is highly overrated! Especially when the gun will be useless or close to it with the current choke configuration and modern ammo. I have no problem at all opening chokes to useful configurations and have done so on several. What guilt- that you resurrected a closet queen and brought her back to life?
Make the gun to suit your desires, assuming you plan to keep it for a reasonable length of time.
To RR: Chokes are normally opened up with a reamer or by honing at the muzzle. This leaves the original taper as it was but with a longer parallel section. The taper of course, is shorter, but the same angle.
I doubt that anybody has the equipment or the inclination to mess around with the original lead-in to the choked portion.
Mike O. might add to this thought.
Jim,
One of my 21s has a left barrel that was opened up, and is correctly factory overstamped, from WS2 to IC. There is no parallel section, indicating that they did not simply hone at the muzzle. I don't know if they retained the original angle (shortened the choke section), or opened the choke by reducing the taper. In any case I agree that the usual approach is to leave a parallel section.
My VH 12 was opened (by Mike Orlen) from .034 to about .014. There is a distinct parallel section. It now throws very nice LM patterns despite the parallel. So I wonder how much parallel section is needed in order to reduce choke effect?
Sam