I have wanted a CSM Fox 20 ga. CE for a long time. I have looked and looked and very rarely have I seen a used CSM Fox available.
IMHO, this speaks highly of the guns and their quality manufacture. Even though there arent that many, the fraction of a per centage that are on the used market must mean a lot of highly satisfied customers.You see a fair amount of used CSM 21's, Parker Repros, etc out there for sale. but darn few CSM Foxes.
Can anyone offer an opinion or judgement as to hwy they think this is?. I have handled some but never hunted or shot one.

Just seems unusual that they are so conspicuous in their absence. Speaks volumes dont you think?

Brian, I just think there are fewer of them than the others you mention. I know where one is now but I can't talk about it. It's my dream gun, almost the way I would order one. I'm just kind of laying low, waiting for the price to go down. Murphy

Brian, I had a XE 20 it was a very fine gun but the only thing that I didn't like was the newness so I sold it. It sold the day the add came out and it was not a give away price. So I'm going to have to agree with you, these just may be the finest guns in the world...

tim

I believe the reason they are seldom encountered on the secondary market is because they are a custom-built gun to the whims and wants of the purchaser. This purchaser ordered his dream gun to his specs just the way he wanted it, probably had to wait close to a year for it to be completed and therefore is reluctant to part with it. If you had ordered one custom-built to your specs, would you want to sell it?...probably not. CSMC Foxes have only been around for what--15 years or so? Their owners will eventually pass on and then they'll become available. Until then you can continue your search for a CSMC 20-CE---which, as you know, is like finding a needle in a hay stack, or you could order one new from Tony or you can create your own custom from an original Fox by upgrading.

I see them all the time in auctions such as Julia's.

what kind of prices have you seen them realize?? is there much of a reduction off of retail when they hit the used market.
what have you seen the standard CE's go for? Including the vig.
Curious as to how they hold their value in the used gun market.

Brian I bought my CSMC XE new in 1998. It has seen much use as my go to upland hunting gun. I bought it to use and it has been with me on many trips. I just wanted a Fox made for me to my specifications. I specified special engraving in that it has grouse in flight on one side panel and mallard ducks in flight on the other panel. As you know I love the vintage Fox guns but I like my CSMC Fox just as much. I bought mine for $12.5k in 1998, the current price as I have mine configured would be $18k. Will I get my money out of the gun, who knows. Maybe my son will find out some day. Bottom line they are beautiful guns in my opinion.

Brian,
there was only one CSM at the Julia Spring auction,it was a FE 28ga w/26 in Krupp barrels (Lot 1396),it sold for 19550 (including the vig) against a est of 17500-25000.

I think the main reason you don't see many is most of the guys that buy them have enough money that they don't "have" to sell them.New,they keep going up in price so no reason to sell.

Keep Safe and thank you for all you do for this country,
Dave

Brian, there were 12,000+ Parker Repros produced, just counting the standard DHE's in 12-20-28. I'd guess there have not been 1,000 CSMC Foxes made. But you certainly have good taste! I've been very impressed by the few I've seen.

Stay safe, and hope you're home soon.

The CMSC Foxs I have seen have been stunning. But they are pricey and I doubt that they would bring near what they cost new in the secondary market. I agree with what others have posted. Most who can afford them can also afford to keep them and not take a loss. RCC

I saw a really nice DE 28 at the CADA show last weekend. No tag and I didn't ask, but it was stunning.

I've been told that CSMC manufactures about 30-40 Foxes per year, so for 15 years of production, that's 600 guns. They make CE, XE, DE and FE with a few Exhibition guns. Also the DE Special is the most popular Model. So even if one divides production equally among Grades, there is about 150 CSMC CE Grade Foxes out there. One could assume that the CE would be the most popular due to lower price but I don't know if that is a good assumption. As correctly pointed out, except for a few currently available new from CSMC, I suppose built on speculation, each Fox is a custom order and so marked on the barrels "Made to Order A. H. Fox".
I think one can clearly see why few come on the market and its also a testement to the gun itself.
Currently delivery is about 14 months.
Comparing a CSMC Fox to other Foxes is like comparing a Production Era Model 21 to a Winchester Custom Shop gun. The fit and finish are superb.-Dick

I wonder why they don't make a 12ga. If I could afford one I would want a 12 but a 28 would be nice also. I'll keep trying to hit the big lottery and I'll order one of each. Ya right!

As far as answering the question "Can I get my money back?", I only need to go back to my original CSMC Fox price list. The CE Grade was offered at $5650 as I recall. I wonder if I can get my $2695 back for my double trigger Parker Repro 28 gauge two barrel set?

proly because they make them in gauge(s) more rare in original ah fox guns and in this respect making 12br would not make sense. just look at bc miroku model 12 repros made for winchester and browning. they were made in 20ga and not stupid 16ga or dime a dozen 12br.

the vintage ones tend to be less expensive and as you proly know one can get j.t. callahan letter. it specifies: grade, gauge, barrel lenth/chokes, stock dimensions, weight plus you get extra info. "your shotgun was completed.....on february 6, 1914.....abercrmobie & fitch of nyc.....re-sold on april 3, 1915 to the e.k. tryon co. of phila. pa.....it carried a price tag of $52.50 in 1914." at that price i would take a cartfull.

CSMC did not want the expense of tooling for another frame size(16 and 20 are on the same frame) and as surmised, there are a lot of 12 gauge Foxes on the market.-Dick

Brian:
There is a CSMC Fox CE, 20 ga, 30" barrels for sale at the CSMC used gun shop. They are asking $14,500. For what it is worth IMHO Lou (fellow who runs used gun dept) is always looking for quite a bit more than retail and is not very open to negotiating his prices. Maybe they eventually get their number.

Chicago Mike

I could not stay interested in the "new" Foxes EXCEPT my Special S x S .22 cal rifle engraved by DeMunck, that is a cool little gun.

tim

Post some pictures of that double 22 rifle you have Timothy,they are neat.

I bought a CE CSMC Fox last year, found it at a local gun shop. Paid $11,750 for it. It had a letter that it was the #2 CE,it was ordered in 1993. I have the letter from CSMC confirming the order. The gun had beed used and had the original owners initials on the trigger guard.
I sent the gun to Gunther who was at one time a CSMC worker and help make the Foxes and also had a CSMC outsourced engraver to remove the initials and emgrave the factory scroll engraving on trigger guard. Gunther did a fantastic job re-doing the gun. It has many upgrades and is Demunk engraved. Would I part with it? Yes at the right price.

It seems to me there are quite a few available considering the small numbers made. Of course getting your exact options will not be easy with a custome gun on the used market.

Dave, I've been out of pocket. Just got back last nite. I'm not much into the posting pics, but I'll see what I can do.

tim

Thanks Tim,
I was telling another collector about them and could not find a picture of one on the net to show him.
To post a pic you upload it to a web host like Hunt 101;

http://www.hunt101.com/

then you use the "enter image" button (3rd one to the right)on here and copy and paste the direct link (http: .....)in the pop up window like I did here and you have it posted.
Happy to help if you need it.

I had an FE made a few years ago with 16 and 20 gauge barrels and love that gun. I would never sell, but might consider a trade for a new Purdy or H&H for a straight up trade.
My 16 has 30" bbls and a 15 3/4" lop and it still only weighs 6 lbs 5 ozs. It was a pleasure to carry on the prarie last year in SD. It is extremely well made. My engraver was Paul Lantuch and he did a spectacular job. My next want is a Model 21. I would love to order it from CSMC, but can't afford the GA, which is what I want. My other option is to by an older 21 and have it upgraded, but that is pricey too.

Kevin, I really like those CSMC Foxes . . . but if you find someone who wants to trade straight up for a new Purdey or H&H, it might get you wondering a little bit about their mental health history.