Usualy what kind of 9 mm ammo been used on pre-1912 drillings?
Caliber marked as 118,35 (8,64mm), black powder proof.
Drilling liberated from Germany after ww-2.
It's usually some variant on the English 360 BPE case. 9.3X72R, 360 2 1/4"/9.3X57R/360 or 9.3X82R but it could be some odd case like 9.3X36R, 9.3X45R, 9.3X48.... and 9.3X70R, with the 118,35 being in the 0.341" to 0.350" range and being the pre-rifling diameter.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
This is the pre-WWI method of German proofing. 118.35 is the bore gauge of the rifle barrel and corresponds to 9.3mm.
The other common gauge measurement for the 9.3mm bore was 108.49, the next size up.
Instead of the decimal point you often encounter a "slash" which would appear as 118/35.
You have a 9.3mm of some sort. You should do a Cerrosafe chamber cast to further explore what you have.
Curl
Yeap, Ramey, nothing new under the sun, before serrosafing simple measurements show probably it's 9,3x72R
Geno:
Nothing new. With the 118/35, at least on the ones I have, the bullet diameter is around 0.355" instead of the normalized 0.366", or whatever 9.3mm would be. I'd slug the bore and use the 72mm cases. Here in the U.S.A. I think it was Buffalo Arms(
http://www.buffaloarms.com) that had a quanity of RWS 9.3X72R cases recently and I purchased a couple hundred cases. I had purchased some converted 9.3X74R to 9.3x72R with the parent headstamp from BAC but the converted case and tight chamber usually don't make a nice pairing.\
Will you pleasure us with some pics?
Jani(post below):
I've had really good success with my wife's candles also.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Geno,
By all means do a chamber cast, but there is about 99% chance that it will turn out to be 9.3x72R.
As I do not have any Cerrosafe around, I just use the nearest old candle, with good results for this purpose.
Jani
It could be a 9.3x74R.
I have a double rifle in that chamber that is proofed 118.35.
Curl
I have a big piece of poor beewax for that, which is more harder than candle! (but softer than serrosafe)
This time I try to help my friend to find out caliber by phone, no photos yet.
Curl,
You are a very lucky man. I have seen hundreds of pre-WWI 9.3's, but none was in 9.3x74R; a couple in 9.3x57R and 9.3x82R; all the rest in the once highly popular 9.3x72R.
With kind regards,
Jani
I have heard the 9.3x74R called "the Goring caliber",not sure if it was a favorite in his hunting guns or,more then likely the choice for the Luftwaffe drilling rifle barrel.
9,3x74R "Goering" caliber on pre-1912 gun? Damn, you're all from the Moon!
9,3x74R on pre-1912 drilling? - I don't believe my ears!
What's wrong with you today? Did you eat too much fresh tomatos early in the morning?
Geno,
Not refering to the gun,the caliber !
It wasn't the "Goering caliber" in pre 1912,it,9.3X74R, was still around in the 1930 and 40's when he used in the Luftwaffe drilling and his hunting rifles too !!!
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/64/78.htmlwhere did you find those tomatos ?
Curl,
You are a very lucky man. I have seen hundreds of pre-WWI 9.3's, but none was in 9.3x74R; a couple in 9.3x57R and 9.3x82R; all the rest in the once highly popular 9.3x72R.
With kind regards,
Jani
Montenegrin,
Here's my DR with pre-1912 proofs and the bores proofed at 118/35:
http://www.rbsiii.com/collection/rifles/muzzelverschluss_93/muzzelverschluss_93.htmCurl
Curl,
Yours is a beautiful DR, a perfect unity of function and form, as a matter of fact one of the nicest Continental rifles I've seen; my sincere congratulations.
9.3x74R came out in the early 1900s so rifles chambered for it were not realy rare in pre-WWI Europe, but they were quite uncommon compared to 9.3x72R (which was to the Cenral European hunter roughly the same as .30-30W in the US, as far as popularity was concerned).
With kind regards,
Jani
Jani,
Thank you very much for your kind comments.
Curl
This is from the
German Gun Collectors web site article by Steve Meyer:
Rifle Gauge Table
A brief table that is pretty helpful for pre-WWI German rifles shows the use of fractional 'gauge' numbers for barrel diameters. This was largest plug gauge diameter that would fit in the bore. The British proof law of 1868 had set up standard gauge sizes from .300" (172.28 gauge) to .450" (51.05 gauge) in .010" increments in the same sense that a shotgun bore is gauged, by the number of round lead balls of that diameter that make a pound. The Germans adopted this somewhat awkward system as well.
Gauge - inch
51.05 - .450
54.61 - .440
58.50 - .430
62.78 - .420
67.49 - .410
72.68 - .400
78.41 - .390
84.77 - .380
91.83 - .370
99.70 - .360
108.49 - .350 common on 9,3mms
118.35 - .340 common on 9,3mms
129.43 - .330
141.95 - .320
156.14 - .310
172.28 - .300 very common on 8mms
These are most frequently seen with a / instead of the decimal point, as in 172/28 or 84/77
CptCurl:
What's the steel type stamp on the top of the tubes near the breech?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
CptCurl:
What's the steel type stamp on the top of the tubes near the breech?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Raimey,
The stamp is "Prima Krupp Stahl".
Curl
I have two 9.3 guns, one a cape gun and the other a stalking rifle. You can get bullets from Buffalo Bullets, Hawk Bullets and Huntington with no problem. The Buffalo bullets seem to match the current 193 gr copper jacketed ones, Hawk sells a 200 grain soft copper jacketed one my cape gun loves. Huntingtons sells a 200 grain lead bullet that is very good. Steve Meyer I think has posted the most important fact. Your gun is on the small side as far as bore goes. Slug the barrel as well as chamber cast. I failed to slug the bore on my stalking rifle and was putting .366 bullets down a .348 bore. Accuracy was not good and I almost lost some teeth from recoil. Huntingtons sells .348 bullets that should work well. They also sell brass as does Buffalo bullets. S&B sells loaded ammo but it is expensive and is really for the .365/.366 bore guns. I'm a member of the GGCA and had Steve's article. It was excellent but I should have read it before I fired. This is a nice cartridge for deer out to about 100-150l yard, low recoil and can be very accurate.
Frank
After slugging the bore, most "little" 9.3's do very well on a diet of 35 caliber rifle bullets or 38 pistol bullets. Huntington's has Norma 9.3x72R brass, too. I find the 200 grain Hornady XTP bullets do very well indeed in the old Forester's Patrone.
c.