1st post. Been lurking in the shadows doing alot of reading. I'm impressed with the amount of knowledge that is being shared.

What can you tell me about the Classic Doubles line made by Steve Lamboy and Sons? Handmade in America got my attention.
Can someone please school me. Thanks.

Bob,
There have been many threads on the ICDs in the past. A search may bring some up.
In short ICD produced less than 500 guns in two lots.
470xxx guns were manufactured in the US using parts supplied by Italian company.
471xxx guns were made in US with Krupp barral and receivers made somewhere I don't remember.
BEWARE-of guns made by an Italian firm with parts that ICD rejected. They look very similar but have reference to ICD or Victor,NY xx-ed out or absent. These guns are numbered in the 470xxx range and have caused a lot of misunderstanding which has unjustly tainted the reputation of ICD guns.
Bob jurewicz

Welcome to the Forum

If you are looking for information on the quality of these guns I can tell you that overall reliability is not great. That being said there certainly are many people who have owned these guns without any problems. However, when classic doubles went bankrupt I worked on many of these guns with various problems (I'm assuming that these where problems that would have gone back to the factory had they not gone bankrupt). Also, I took part in building a few of these guns from some of the Galazan parts kits (leftovers from Classic Doubles) so I am well acquainted with these guns. With this experience I believe that the final product did no live up to Classic Doubles advertising hype. Truth be told I saw a rather narrow segment of the Ithaca classic double guns that where produced, dealing mainly with understandably annoyed people and problem guns. However, some of these guns are nicely fit and finished while others are not. If you find a good example at the right price buy it especially if it has been shot moderately and proven reliable. Just make sure it is selling for a good price.

Dan

Dan:

Were the Galazan parts kits from the Italian manufacturer or from the other one. I purchased a 20ga & a 28ga kit from Galazan, sent them to a gunsmith they reccomended; and four years later I have nothing in my hand and have written the whole thing as a loss.

I'm hoping they were the inferior quality kits so I won't feel quite so bad for losing the cost of the kits and my deposit to the gunsmith.

Hack

I have seen about five of these guns (471-series) in the flesh. Issues of reliability aside, there were uniformly the best finished guns this side of the Atlantic, grade by grade equal to the CSM Foxes.

Bob
I'm looking at the floorplates of 2 4E's. At about the hingepin is an oval with the engraved image of what looks like a snipe. On 1 gun the ovals border says Ithaca Classic Doubles across the top and Victor N.Y. along the bottom. On the other, the border of the oval is just etched.
Would the second example be the italian gun with the rejected parts that your speaking of?

Dan,
What were some of the issues that you are aware of regarding reliability? Thanks.

Hack,
If that gunsmith was Andrew Macfarlane we now know where he is.
Bob Jurewicz

Bob:

It was Andrew, and if he's still in Texas, I know where is. I talked to him about 6 months ago, and he shared with me some of the issues he has had to deal with. He said he plans to finish the guns, and maybe one day he will surprise me and do it.

Like I said earlier I've written it off & quit worrying about it.

Thanks,

Hack

Bob, of the guns manufactured in the U.S be it Italian parts or the latter , what were the perceived differences (excluding the X'd out variety). Thanks

Bob,
The late 471xxx guns seem most desireable to people. They are a little lighter in weight and some believe a little stronger in material. Some of the earliest of the "Italian" ICDs had typical early production growing pains(checkering and fit). ICD was in a learning curve. I have both "Italian" and "Krupp" ICDs and very much like both. Engraving on my early guns I believe to be better than the "krupp" guns.
Beschi guns assembled using rejected parts are another story. I have seen many and all have have serious workmanship issues and many had mechanical problems. They are priced about 1/2 the ICDs. Buyer beware!!!!
Bob Jurewicz

Although Andrew McFarland is not working on Hacks gun, is he still doing gunsmithing? What part of Texas is he in?

Thanks,

JOhn

Thanks to all. I appreciate the information.

Turns out to be a 470XXX "Victor, N.Y.".
Absolutely beautiful NIB 28 gauge 26", Mod/IC, DT, Petite BTFE. Fit and finish without flaw.

Can anyone give me a production breakdown regarding gauge or configuration? Thanks

I own a Grade 4 28 bore in the dual digit 471xxx series...The gun is phenomenal!

The Krupps barrel as produced by Merkel are perfect and very robust. The receiver...if I recall correctly was made I believe in Belgium by VGM with USA made innards.

These late guns are about ten fold better than the 470 series Italian guns. The wood is stunning as is the engraving.

ICD was literally 5 miles form my house and I visited Steve Lamboy numerous times at the shop. Steve had numerous production issues with parts from Italy...Making working guns from them was often very challenging for his gunsmiths who were very talented.
(As an example; I cite an Italian supplied barrel set that I examined that had miss matched barrels...28 gauge bores with 20 gauge chambers.....like I said challenging!)

It is really sad that they went belly up. Steve is a good man and always wanted the best for his clients. Toward the end they guns they were turning out were really very nice.

Hello Dave,
Gee, if the newer guns were only 9 fold better than the gun I just acquired, I'd feel ok about the acquisition. I guess all that's left is to split the barrels and stake up my tomato plants, use the receiver as a paperweight and burn the absolutely beautiful buttstock and forend wood to warm the home.
Now how about those production numbers. Thanks, Bob

Sorry Bob - 10 fold may have been an embellishment to get my point across...all the late guns were great cosmetics, strength and function...while some of the early ones would be (in my mind) questionable from a longevity standpoint all were very very pretty.

Like I said; The early Italian parts situation at ICD was very challenging but their gunsmiths were very good!

Both Andrew and Gunther made some fine pieces out of parts that others would have scrapped. Honestly, the time they spent getting each gun right was one of the contributing factors to the company’s demise.

PS - The tomato staking thing freaked me out...send me the wood it you decide on kindling it...;-)

Just picture it, blued steel barrels pounded into the ground with tomato plants fastened with that green gardeners tape.

Bob J. stated that only 500 were produced. If they were made in roughly equal runs, mine was at the latter end of the "Italian production". I've got 28 gauge Superposed, 28 gauge Winchester 21's, a 28 gauge Parker and the cosmetics of fit and finish seem as good if not better. What about the innards? Specifically, what are the issues?

If I sharpen 1 side of the buttplate by scrapeing it on the concrete sidewalk, i can use it to remove ice from my windshield on cold winter mornings. Thanks, Bob

Bob,
Don"t be down on your gun! The 470s are great guns and should function flawlessly while providing great enjoyment and pride of ownership. I have a 4E and a 7E early gun and they are great! I like them better than a late one that I have.
Bob Jurewicz

Dan seems to be aware of most of the "issues" with ICDs. Under no circumstance do you want to buy a Beschi gun as an investment. The parts were rejected by Steve as being inferior and who knows how and who assembled them.
I've seen, shot, and handled many of the gun both Italian and Krupp/VGM. I, currently own 5 (all Krupp) and Bob isn't far behind. These guns have received a lot of "bad press" on this and other forums. I have to believe that most of the people commenting on this issue have little experience with these guns and are far from experts. Dan, you're the exception. It sounds like you have dealt with problem guns.
Were there issues with some of these guns? Yes. The vast majority were well made and truly a bargain at current prices...try and find one. JTH Agency has one for sale, a Krupp gun for $6,500. This gun is a 20ga., 30"bbls, IC/Mod, PG with BTFE. The gun is perfect. Try and find something else out there at this price.
Parker Repros are commanding this kind of money and they were a production gun with issues of their own...a single trigger that doesn't work for one thing and "case coloring" that has the quality of finger paint for another. Somehow, these are always glossed over.

Bob Cash:
The Italian guns are, for the most part, just fine. My friend and hunting partner owns the only two 3Es (late Italian) made by ICD. They are a matched pair with consecutive serial numbers, 20/28ga.,28"bbls, SST, BTFE, ES, IC/Mod, and upgraded wood.
These are very, very nice guns and he actually hunts with them. I prefer the Krupp guns (lighter) in general but that doesn't mean that there aren't very nice Italian guns to be had.
The bottom line is that these guns, in any configuration, are bargains in comparison to what else is out there. Just be aware of the Beschi issue and stay clear of these guns.

If we're comparing, then it's probably good to compare ACROSS THE BOARD. The early ICD's I saw were guns with very poor wood to metal fit, considering their price range. I have never seen a single Parker Repro--not one, and I've seen a ton of them, owned about a dozen--with fit issues like those guns had. Agree with the Parker case color evaluation. The SST . . . some people shoot them a lot, never have issues; some do have issues. (That'd be kinda like the fit thing on the ICD's.) I had one that had SST problems, about 4 or 5 others that did not. But then I prefer DT's anyhow, and the DT Repros are great.

You'll look long and hard to find a 20ga Parker Repro selling for $6500. That's upper level 28ga Repro dollars. Bunches of 20's out there for under $5K. Check gunsinternational or various dealers to confirm. A difference of $2,000 might be "the same money" to some people, but not me.

So if we're going to compare, let's compare ACCURATELY: REAL positives and negatives of both, REALISTIC prices, etc.

OK Larry, let's compare:

Engraving: The ICDs were done by top Italian (Creative Arts), American (Adams&Adams, John Pease, Jack Jones, Jeff Spicer, and others) and German (Eva Rausch) engravers. Who knows (or cares) do did the Repros.

Case coloring: The ICDs were done by Turnbull. The Repros were done in Ms. Smith's finger painting class.

Barrel bluing: ICD - Turnbull.

Single triggers: ICD: Miller Single Trigger, originally done by Turnbull with definite "issues" later brought in-house and no issues.
The Repro has single trigger problems that no one can solve.

Stocking: The ICD stock were done by Nick Tooth, Joe Dallas, and Ron Buck (now with Galazan). Nick was at Purdey's. The quality of their work is top notch. If you saw an early prototype, they probably didn't do the work.

Assembly: The ICDs were built by hand on an individual basis by top American and European craftsmen headed by Gunter Pfrommer. I have been to the factory dozens of times, know the men who made these guns, seen their work, and love their guns.
The Repros were a production gun made in the same factory as the Winchester 101 and Model 23....good guns but not custom guns.

Quality issues: We can rehash this until the cows come home. I have seen, handled, and shot dozens of ICDs. I,currently, own five and have put thousands of rounds through each of them. Have you ever owned or even shot one of these guns? Yes, I know you saw one (or more) of the early guns, but have you actually had any experience with the later guns, especially the Krupp/VGM guns?

We all know how much you love the Parker Repro. I spite of the fact that I don't share your opinion, I don't doubt that something can be said for them. If you're going to denigrate the ICD, at least base it on a more thorough evaluation.

I feel confident that there are more Repros out there with trigger problems and bad case coloring than ICDs with fitting issues but that shouldn't be the point. Both guns offer value and that shouldn't be overlooked by either of us.

I to the C to the D
I to the C to the D
I to the C to .........

We kind of got the history of the 471XXX parts, how about the 470XXX Italian parts. Any information on the production of these components?
Regarding Engraving, Case Coloring, Blueing, Stocking, Assembly,
Same craftsmen on both the 470 and 471 series? Thanks.

Bob,

The process evolved. My first contact with Ithaca Classic Doubles was in 1999 when I ordered the first of my guns, a 16 gauge that became a "matched pair" when a ordered a 28 gauge as the second gun.
At that time all guns were made with Italian parts had serial numbers beginning with #470xxx. There are others who know far more about the early production than I do and I rather that they comment on this. The parts for the two guns are different and the barrels can't be fitted interchangeably. I loaded most of the 28 gauge shells used for the test fire of the first VGM/Krupp gun. 1700 rounds were fired out of the gun without a malfunction. Then the gun was taken apart by Gunter Pfrommer and checked for wear. There was virtually none. My friend bought the gun and has it today. Its serial number is 471003. The first two receivers didn't make it through customs....paperwork?
When I first visited the factory in 2000, there were very few people there. Nick Tooth and Charlie Goodberlet are the only two that I recall.
By the time they closed, there were at least a dozen full-time employees including two engravers, Jack Jones and Jeff Spicer, who operated out of an old railroad boxcar adjacent the main building.
Virtually the entire gun was made on the premises with the exception being barrel bluing and case coloring which was done six miles away at Turnbull's.
By the time my guns were built, ICD had switched over to the #471xxx gun. All the subsequent guns I bought were the newer version. That does NOT mean the Italian guns were of inferior quality. There are some who actually prefer the Italian version and they are knowledgeable individuals.
There were two TV shows made about ICD: (1). The Shotgun Journal - Ithaca Classic Doubles, (2). Gray's Sporting Journal - The Fowling Piece. For those really interested in how these guns were made, I suggest getting copies of these videos.

Tom, I did NOT see a "prototype". I saw two of the early Italian guns at Cabela's in Owatonna. (If they have price tags on them, presumably they are NOT prototypes!) Bill Taylor, who ran the Gun Library back then, agreed with me that the wood to metal fit was really poor (very proud wood). I have seen several others, some with much better fit. You (and others here) have admitted to various functioning problems with the ICD's, mostly the early ones. So . . . does that mean you need to check the SN before you buy? Far as I know, early to late, Parker Repro quality was quite consistent. (You get that on production guns; you don't always on "custom" guns, if the quality of the parts and the custom work isn't the same.)

The Parker Repro used the Parker single trigger. Many guys that reported problems with the trigger also reported that those problems were solved fairly quickly. No question, however, it's not as good a single trigger as the Miller. More Parker ST problems out there? Certainly . . . but then there must be something close to 10,000 ST Repros floating around, which is about 10x the entire ICD production--and kinda puts into perspective problems of any kind reported with Repros vs ICD's. However, DT guns to DT guns, what are the complaints about the Repros? The case colors fade, the DHE's don't have hand engraving. But they work very well, and consistently--and you don't need to check to see whether they were made with Italian parts or not--and the wood to metal fit is very consistent. Barrel blue . . . regardless of who did the ICD's and who did the Repros, I've never seen any kind of issue with Repro barrel blue. Very good work.

Whether SOME Italian guns are of "better" quality is not the issue. The issue is the inconsistency of the quality of the Italian guns, and there's no way you can talk your way around that--regardless who did the work.

It's not a question of my "loving" the Repro. I'm into calling a spade a spade. I've often commented that I don't particularly care for the Repro 20's, because I think they're on the heavy side--for 20's. The 28's and the 12's, I think are about where they need to be in terms of weight, for my taste, for those two gauges. But then I find many of the ICD's too heavy too, for either 20's or 28's.

And I beat you to the old RR station, Tom. I was there in the summer of 1999; don't know when Gunter took charge of the assembly process, but he wasn't there then--which means not all the guns were made under his watchful eye. (Again, consistency issues.)

Here are a couple of pictures of a gun I would love to own. This is an Ithaca Classic Doubles gun made in 2003 that is an example of what a quality gun is supposed to look like. Unfortunately, I was not in the position to buy it. This gun is a one of a kind engraved by Jeff Spicer and checkered by Ron Buck.
Most of the guns produced didn't leave the factory with issues. It does bother me every gun produced by ICD is tainted by the few that left with problems.
Winchester's Japanese plant had been operating for many years before they began the Parker project. Yet, they produced guns with both mechanical and cosmetic problems. If the current price is an indicator, these faults have been ignored by most and rarely mentioned...except by me. I bring it up only to illustrate that it's unfair to continually harp on one while the other goes down as a "classic".
I own Ithaca's of high quality. Yet, I know that there are guns out there that much better (not in workmanship but higher grade).
Every time ICDs are mentioned we hear about "proud wood" and Beschi's. This is unfortunate and will keep the many fine examples of truly wonderful guns from being recognized for what they are.





This is Ronnie Buck. You're still the man.

Tom, you have any photos of Parker Repros with proud wood? I don't know of anyone who "hides" the fact that there are indeed issues with the Parker ST's, or that the case colors fade. As for the current price for a 20ga Repro, it's not $6500, which you previously mentioned. There are a dozen DHE 20's on gunsinternational, only one of which is priced over $5K; several under $4K. Cabela's has two 20ga ICD's, one at $10K (with virtually no engraving, a "competition" gun) and the other at $8K. So you are indeed talking about a significant price difference. For which there ought to be a significant quality difference.

It is indeed unfair to lump REAL ICD's with the Beschi rejects. However, when your total production run is somewhere around 1,000 guns, it doesn't take many with issues to have a negative impact on all the rest. Advising potential buyers to take a hard look at the SPECIFIC ICD they're thinking about purchasing does not seem to me to be unfair or unwarranted advice.

Sorry for the delay in answering a few questions. The collective knowledge on the forum is what makes it truly great. I don't believe anyone could pick a double gun topic and not get helpful info from more than a few people.

Everything written here about the ICD guns of Italian origin "Beschi guns" is true to a degree. These where the parts kits I worked with and my sympathies go out to all the old ICD employees responsible for regulating these Beschi guns. I have encounter no problems with the krupp guns and considering the quality of some of the Beschi parts you have to give a lot of credit to the people that made them work despite the difficulty. That being said there are undoubtedly many beschi guns out there that have given great service and will continue to do so.

Some have asked about the problems I encountered with these guns. Just so everyone is clear there where no major systemic failures. Just basic regulation issues that where sometimes a pain to fix due to the quality of the Italian parts. such as

trigger pull weight
ejector regulation and other ejector issues
hammer sear engagement and the like

All fixable some more easily than others.

I would also like to say that If I found a Beschi gun for the right price I would buy it because whatever the potential problems I believe it could be put right.

The earliest of the ICD were stocked up with improperly dried & layed out lumber. They knew it but time constraints or just plain ignorance made the project push forward with it.
It caused the forwarned problems of warped stocks and gapped inletting. Some stocks were redone in an attempt to better their appearance and fit, but only so much can be done when starting from that point.
As is usual in most projects such as this, the push to get pieces ready for the displays at the SHOT show and other well attended shows made some poor decisioned short cuts in the first guns made.

I wouldn't use Cabella's as the final arbiter for the FMV of any shotgun. The cheapest price I found for a Parker Repro was $3,999 and it has a cracked stock. The most expensive was a 3 bbl set for the ridiculously low price of $13,500.

As for the price on their ICD's, I wish them well but won't be calling.

If I were in the market for another 20 gauge ICD, I would be all over the JTH Agency for $6,500. It's a great buy.

I doubt that it would take two years and $2,100 to solve a proud wood issue. It did with the small Parker Repro single trigger problem I had. There is someone walking around with a 28ga. Parker Repro and a Miller (Howard and Delbert) single trigger that cost $1,150 to install. The meter had been running for 18 months while others tried to do the impossible...get the trigger to work. I couldn't and wouldn't sell or trade a gun I considered intrinsically dangerous. By the time I got this gem to work, I couldn't stand the sight of it.

Fortunately, I don't have to live with proud wood...but I could.

This is apparently one of the Beschi guns assembled from ICD parts. At least it looks like an Ithaca NID to me.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11653

Best,

Mike

Tom, could you PLEASE stick to "apples to apples"? You keep tossing oranges in your comparisons. I'm pretty sure your 3 barrel set has 2 sets of 20ga barrels and a set of 16ga. I know where there are a couple of those cheaper than that, but since we're only comparing to ICD's with ONE set of barrels--right?--then let's compare to Repro 20's with ONE set of barrels. Average asking price, from dealers, is somewhere in the mid-$4K range. By all means, check gunsinternational to verify. I only found ONE 20ga Repro priced over $5K; 10 or 11 under that. I don't think you'd have any problem buying a very nice one for $4,000. Maybe a little less. More, for sure, for a 28ga.

Other than you, I don't think I've heard of anyone spending $2100 to cure a Parker Repro SST problem. Usually, when you ask on a website such as this, you will certainly find people that have had problems with Repros with SST's--most of which are usually solved fairly quickly and simply, often just disassembly and cleaning.

And as for spending money after you buy the gun, from Dan's post above, sounds to me like you'd better be prepared to shell out some $ to a decent doublegun smith if you buy one of the 470 series, Italian parts ICD's.

Larry, it's obvious that you love Parker Repros and I hate them. The reciprocal seems to be true of Ithaca Classic Doubles. This is what makes the world go around and gun interest diverse.
You're not going to win me over. I don't think Repros are a bargain and would never buy another one.
Incidentally, I've been around long enough to send my gun to people who should be able to fix problem guns. I don't want to mention names. However, a well known restoration company had the gun twice. A trigger expert of national reputation had the gun for seven months after which he sent the gun back to me and wouldn't except even the shipping costs on the condition that he never see the gun again. It was the first trigger problem in 24 years that he couldn't fix. Another company (not Reagent but did work for them) had the gun three times @$175 a crack and the gun still fan fired. The trigger couldn't be fixed.
At this point, I turned to Howard Miller. He was 87 and his kid brother 85 at the time. I learned the history of the Miller Single Trigger from Mr. Miller....very interesting.
The 470xxx guns were not the total disaster that you perceive. There are many fine examples of them including some owned by friends of mine. Steve Lamboy had some quality men working for him as you know. They didn't specialize in building junk. Unfortunately, some guns of less than perfect quality did hit the market. The Beschi kits sold by Galazan don't help the situation. They all have #470xxx serial numbers and will, no doubt, be unfairly be laid at ICD's doorstep.
To me, a faulty trigger is a much bigger concern than less than perfect wood fit. With a bad trigger, the gun is useless. There are plenty of examples of Repros with bad single triggers and you know this. In fairness, the early Miller triggers put in ICD's all had problems including mine. The difference is that Ithaca fixed the problem by bringing the work in-house. I have tens of thousands of rounds through my two ICD's with single triggers and they work flawlessly. The wood to metal and metal to metal fit is what you would expect with any custom gun and I have never heard anyone dispute this. I own three others that were not made specifically for me but are of excellent quality, all 4Es, #471xxx,and were NIB.
Dan's business is fixing guns. I don't think he's much into "wellness" visits. He seems to be very knowledgeable and can speak for himself.
Your advise to people wanting Parker Repros is to buy them with double triggers....mine to people wanting an ICD is to buy a #471xxx.
Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Of the two, I would buy a Parker Repro. Don't get me wrong though, I think that Steve is a good guy, just maybe he didn't have the funding and the fact that the Ithaca Gun just isn't as popular as Parker, Fox and Smith, to pull off what he wanted accomplish.

tim

Far as I know, the Parker Repro has the same ST problems as the original Parker with a ST. They used the same ST. Only difference is, you see a far higher % of ST Repros than you do originals with ST's. But lots and lots of people shoot ST Repros with no problems at all; most that have problems get them solved pretty easily and quickly.

Yes, I certainly advise DT's on a Repro. Perhaps the incidence of ST problems on Repros--given the fact that there are lots more of them than ICD's--is about the same as the incidence of problems with 470 series ICD's? In which case, a general warning to buyers about both potential problems seems well warranted.

OK, I took orders for and delivered Steve's excellent guns for the duration, from prototype to the last destructive price increase. Maybe some of you experts can explain how we are to identify the difference between the "early Italian guns in the 470,000 range that are not as good as the" "later Krupp barrel guns in the 471,000 range, which are the good ones" from the "later Beschi guns that are in the 470,000 range which are not so good at all". Which serial number range are the guns with the Dutch parts in, which no one seems to talk about? Are the Dutch guns good or bad and what serial number range are they in? Strange that I didn't think to take pictures of the barrel flats and water tables of every gun I delivered. The dealers know less about these guns than the customers. It isn't our fault. We thought they were all the same except the odd badly fitted gun. Unfortunately, we don't know where the badly fitted guns were made nor can we remember what the serial numbers were.

When the switch was made to Krupp barrels/Dutch receivers, I believe ICD jumped into the 471,000 range. They did not produce 1,000 guns from Italian parts, so I believe there were a lot of unused 470xxx SN's. Tom may know more, but that's how I understand it.

The Beschi guns are real easy. They don't say "Ithaca Classic Doubles". And you wouldn't have been delivering them for Steve. They were rejects and had nothing to do with ICD, other than having been rejected (or maybe never received, after they switched to Krupp barrels/Dutch receivers) by ICD.

Bill,
The differentiations are as Larry states with the Beschi complication. Italian parts= #470xxx. Krupp and Dutch =#471xxx. Beschi's are serialized in the early 470 range and are easy to spot because ICD is xxx out or not to be found. Many prefer the #471 series guns for parts they believe superior to the #470's and more experienced workmanship. I like the #470's and believe that engraving is better and truer to the classic Ithaca(patterns were changed for the 471 guns). 470 guns need be judged individually due to the ICD learning curve. Apprx. 250 of each Serial # range were made for a total of about 500+ real ICD guns.
Bob Jurewicz

I do believe I know where a most excellent NIB ICD in 28 gauge (470178) can be found for a rediculously low price. $11 to Dave

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=160828884

Im looking at that 28 gauge on GB. Do you guys feel its priced at market hi or low? I see it has been reduced 1000.00 since listed, Did the seller start to high or are they hard to move if need be? How is the quality compaired with Parker repro's. The PR have a great track record for heavy use with no major breakage. PR continue to go up each year. If I buy the ICD listed ...I would want to use it lightly and be able to sell if need be without a heavy loss...thanks all Kenny SXS ohio...(-:

It is about as low as I've seen them. I've kept an eye on them for quite a while. The pluses on this gun are, double triggers, great wood, 28g. The downside is the short 26" bbls.

That is a good point. My friend's early 28 gauge long barrel gun with Nick Tooth stocked and recessed checkered wood would be up on the scale about three steps on this gun, but, then, my friend's gun is not for sale. No, it is not my gun. The pictured gun looks like a great gun. I would own it.

I'd agree with the above and would not hesitate to buy at that price, as long as the 26" barrels were OK with me. You'll find a lot more Parker Repros with single triggers vs double, and their single triggers can be problematic. A NIB 28ga Repro will probably cost you the asking price on this gun, or more. And while I like Repros, this one is essentially a hand-made gun, knockout wood, case colors by Turnbull (the CC on a Repro will fade fairly quickly). Especially given the price on this gun, I'd take it over a Repro--and I've owned several Repros, and now own essentially the same gun pictured, but in 20ga.

Apparently there seems to be no market for a NIB, handbuilt, beautiful 28 gauge Ithaca Classic Dougle at a rediculously low price. After deciding to take it off the market I was amazed it was able to accomplish the following.
In the past 24 hours this fine little subgauge:
-Stopped a charging bull elephant
-Foiled an attempted bank roberry
-Ran 4 X 100 Skeet (I used Lil' Skeeters for the .410 event)
-Witnessed a few SST Repros double while their case colors faded
-Slowed to a halt an out of control Prius
-dropped 1000 doves in Argentina
-Solved the healthcare/health insurance debacle

What a great gun, Who'd a thunk?

Well Bob, that's obviously a gun you need to keep! As a few of us said, nothing wrong--and in fact, a lot right--with the price. Just one of those cases where no one's in the market. For whatever reason, ICD's don't seem to draw a lot of interest. And they're expensive enough guns that the pool of potential buyers is somewhat limited anyhow.

Bob, I have looked at the pics of your gun and description. Forgive me if I have missed the information, but I don't see stock dimensions. Also , the pics are not very good. They make the case colors look neon, and I am sure they are better than that . I don't see any engraving detail clearly. I would think that when selling a nice gun, clear pics showing the good details the gun has are a must. There are dozens of sellers on the various sites who take terrible pictures that give no information about the gun. Those pics do not help their potential sale. Bad pics do raise questions about the gun.

Sorry Daryl, I did the best I could with the equipment that I have. Blame me for the photos, blame Doug Turnbull for the case colors. They really are quite vivid. Just a little lit up from the flash.

Besides, who needs great images when you have a gun that spent the morning refoliating the rain forest, fixing the economy including the sub-prime lending fiasco and curing global warming.

What a great gun, Who'd a thunk?

Next time, don't use a flash. Use north light or shade on a sunny day. Are the case colors really that color in the pics ? Most all cameras have a macro setting for close up. Stock dimensions, barrel measurements, and chokes should be in all shotgun for sale ads.

I owned two ICDs, both 471xxx guns. Shot both of them quite a bit, but moved on from them. But neither one had any reliability issues. I visited the ICD operation early on. Problems with the early Italian-made guns required a lot of attention and delays in getting them to buyers. If you take a close look at the Beschi guns, you can see some of the issues which Bob J mentions above.

My opinion: I felt sorry for Steve Lamboy when ICD went out of business when they finally had everything going for them with the 471 series guns.

From my memory, Thad Scott ended up with some of the Mario Beschi guns as he tried to sell me some. Fortunately I was aware of the company from their past reputations and took a pass. Could have purchase some very cheap from Thad. Glad I missed that pass


John
Arrieta

Larry, not to sound too harsh, but you undoubtedly must be bored to tears to hunt down and resurrect this thread from 2010 to reiterate what has already been beaten to death on this. Was this somehow important?
JR

John, if you take the time to go back to p.1 of this topic, you will find that the original poster is the individual who resurrected this topic. My short post, which you quoted above, is the only comment I made . . . other than those on an old thread resurrected by someone other than me.

Negative Mr. B
My last post on this thread was 2010

Oh well ,no one lost there birthday

Well then, we're both equally innocent. Someone went back and resurfaced the topic that you started all those years ago. Not me! All I did was add my post to a topic that was already up and running. In any case, that ancient topic did include a lot of information and comments on ICD's.

Hmmm...
JR

ah know of one sorta...

it started out as a 28 gauge parts kit...

it came out decent...

cept has extra heavy barrels...

current owner recently had chambers lengthened to 3" to shoot heavy loads...

I just happened across an outstanding article in the summer issue of The Double Gun Journal from 1992. So, Larry, you have my permission to dig up all the old stuff you can find to keep us informed. I always enjoyed the writings.

Thanks. Temporarily at least, if you're referring to an article I wrote for DGJ, that's one I can't locate--neither hard copy nor in my computer files. That should have been about the time I was swapping Dan articles for ads for "From a Pheasant Hunter's Notebook". There were only about 300 hardback copies of that book, and I sold most of them--signing and numbering them--from ads in DGJ. More like 900 paperback copies.

That's what is was. It was on the 16 gauge shotguns. I believe it was Volume 3 Issue2. Great article.

Thank you. I expect I have it somewhere. The only question is where. This winter I need to do some serious sorting through my paper files. One way or the other, I'm pretty sure I saved a copy of darned near every article I ever wrote, going back to 1977 and the first one I had published in the old Fins & Feathers magazine, of which I was eventually the Iowa editor.

I just ran across a 2000 ICD 4 page flyer in my materials. My custom ICD is long gone--but will give this color flyer to anyone interested.

If it shows the engraved gun I would be interested.Mark

Mark-shows a Sousa, 7E, 4E, and Special Field as well as shop photos and a list of features and cases.

Oh wow!! That is so awesome!! Do you see what you got started, Larry? You are truly the cat's meow!! You too, Hal!!