Some photos of 16ga from previous thread

A few more...

Nice metal Randy but it looks as if the wood's been taken down.

Rob,

Do you think it's been taken down by refinishing, or is it more a case of drying out and shrinkage?

I'm still learning.

Dan

Is Uhlig a German or Belgian maker?

I have the same concern as marklart. The style of the action definitely appears Belgian, but the single fuzzy picture of proof marks appears to show pre war German proofs. Are there other proof marks on the gun, perhaps under the barrel flats, that are different?

To all,

Thanks for the replies. There is a repair to the wood on the left side of the receiver so I need to glass this area as best as I can to close the gaps.

There are no Belgian marks on the metal anywhere. No Perron or other Belgian like marks. I'll try to get a better photo of the proof marks. All proofs appear German.

I purchased another camera so I am still learning how to take pics.

What is puzzling to me is the "1 23" over the "4 31" I was thinking that it went back for a reproof perhaps??

Any ideas about who may have actually made it?

Duke

The action is definately GERMAN. Looks like a JP Sauer Model 3 action to me. Not familiar with the maker, just like in England there were quite a few provincial gunmakers in Germany, so who knows. Is there a "Sauer und Sohn" mark on the watertable? The mark is a S on top of a banner, with a small "u" in the banner followed by another "S" underneath that. Check it out.

Best,
Dustin

The reinforced angle of breech looks French. This "Volkgewehre" was made in Deutchland. When the action profile reminds one of boar's/bulldog's head it's definitely German. The retaining screws and cocking indicators are characteristic of Gery's preoccupation with metalwerke and side clips/cross bolt manifests their luv of brutal strength. Stock is usually sap wood. How much do you want to bet his first name was Wilhelm?

I would agree the action looks like a Sauer, except that it has the large reinforce butress that Sauer did not use. These were very popular Belgian features. It has been established, however, that there are no Belgian proofs, only German. It's an attractive action, whoever made it.

On the fuzzy photo of the barrel flats there appears to be something just above the flats stamped into the steel. What does that mark say? Also, I see no crown/nitro unless it is on that edge. If the gun had been sent back for reproof there would be a repair mark which I don't see. We also need a photo of the action table to see what is marked there other than the serial number almost visible in the photos above. There is no question this is a set of German barrels. I think it remains to be shown where the action came from.

Randy---
The body of your gun is definitely German, not Belgian. It is typical work of the best Suhl makers, though this gun is certainly not anywhere near the level of their best work. It is a bit odd in having just that little blipp in the juncture between the action and the wood. In the cheapest boxlocks this will be perfectly straight. In the better grades it had one or two roundings machined in, and it was scallopped in the most expensive. So this is peculiar.
The side indicators are an upgrade item.
I think your interpretation of the markings regarding the dates of proof is right.
As to the maker, this seems to be a persistent mystery. German guns exhibiting traits such as found on yours are not uncommon. I have a few of them and I have see a lot. But no one seems to know who made them.
Good stuff, though.

Jerry,

It says Nitro in script letters. I cannot recall the other marks. I will take a few more photos and post. I just bought this camera so I am still playing with it.

Edge - the edge of the receiver caught my attention when I first picked it up. It is funny that the first thought was that this gun was "JABC" as the late Russ would have pointed out, but the proofs showed pure German.

More pics are coming soon.

Thanks.

Duke

The 123 over 431 marks show the gun was the 431st gun proofed at that proof house in January 1923. German proof mark crown-over-S indicates smoothbore, crown-over-W is some degree of choke (usually lots), crown-over-U is the final inspection mark. 16/1 indicates that at the time of proof the bore diameter was between .669-.676", the next size up from standard 16 which ran from .662-.668"; 16-in-a-circle shows the gun was chambered for 16 gauge cartridges, the absence of a "70" mark anywhere shows the gun originally had 65mm (2-1/2" or so) chambers.

Nice looking gun. It's also always a pleasure to see unbuggered screw heads.

Steve,

Thanks for looking at this. I just joined GGCA and asked Dietrich about this gun. His reply was that he was forwarding the email to you. Sabrina Schuman just emailed me asking for better proof photos. (Inquiry #873)

Dustin (aka LeFusil)wrote that it looked like a JP Sauer Model 3 action. Ivory beads has a Model 3 on their site that looks very similar to mine but the receiver metal to wood is straight not scalloped or with the little ripple I have on mine.

Chambers are measuring about 2-1/2. I get some other photos especially of the proof marks on the flats and the watertable.

Duke

Here are some additional pictures of this 16ga.

The wood repair appears a lot darker than it does when you see it.

Here is a picture of a JP Sauer Model 3 for comparison with my 16ga.

Randy, Keep working with that camera. Your getting better.

Deltaboy,

Thanks.

Duke

Shucks, I was hoping for something more exotic to show up on the action table and barrels forward of the barrel flats. This is obviously a German gun through and through. I think the action forging is most likely provided by Sauer and the differences between this gun and the finished Sauer is a little different work by whoever filed it up. Sort of unusual to see such nice extra work with the reinforced shoulders, sideclips, reshaped back line on the action etc yet very modest engraving befitting a field grade gun.

Jerry,

All of these points you noted are what attracted me to this gun. It is not heavily or deeply engraved with game scenes, which some like, but not my preference.

My goal is to bring it up a notch by cleaning up the wood, redo the checkering, and reblack the barrels. I will leave the receiver alone and most important is that I will use it.

It is really nice to shoulder. I am going to try to weight it. I think it is about 6 pounds.