The last case that I relined, I used ordinary carpenters' glue. It wasn't a good choice, soaks thru the felt, leaves hard areas where it dries, and visible colour differences. Does anybody know what the pros use, or have a recommendation based on personal successful use?

Ron, I used hot melt glue sticks, slow curing. If you put a lot down, you will get some bleed through. You could also try using 3M Spray Addesive. You spray on and let it dry, then put your felt on it.

Ron, Use the spray stuff from 3M. I have lined a few cases and it doesn't bleed through. Use it for the paper type labels as well. If you get a small amount of the glue on the label some mineral spirits will ermove it and just let it dry to remove the spot.
Regards, Gordon

Ron, I recently finished making a Leg-O-Mutton case. I used both the 3M brand plus the cheaper equivalent spray adhesive from K-Mart - couldn't tell the difference in application. I allowed a couple of minutes drying time after I sprayed the interior of the case and the billiard cloth before attaching. You may wish to lay some waxed paper over the adjacent case areas to prevent overspray from the adhesive.

Ron,

I'm going to buck the tide and make a case for good, old traditional hide glue. There are several reasons for this....the primary one being that you or someone else may want to remove that fabric in later years to reline or reconfigure the interior.

Hide glue, being water soluble, simply needs a light spraying and some time to sit.... and the fabric will lift out without undue scraping.... as you WILL most definitely be doing with stuff like 3M's spray-ons. I speak from experience, having done a good number of cases, and you will have the devil's time of it trying to remove fabrics applied with such products. I've used the 3M Superbond 77 product to attach a case label or two, and even abandoned that, as when removing it you will destroy the lid fabric trying to get it out.

Hide glue works there as well, especially on paper trade labels, as they can be steamed and peeled out as the hide glue softens. Done in this manner, the paper labels can be dried in a press of some sort to maintain flatness and re-used again.

Another positive of hide glue is the long 'open time' it has for working and adjusting the fabric, which you will NOT get with most spray-on contact cements. You can still find hide glues rather readily either in powder or liquid form. I've occasionally used the liquid product by Titebond with good success......heating mildly with hot water in a double boiler type arrangement as this makes it a bit more fluid for applying with a small (2")bristle brush. The powdered glue is similar in that once mixed with water you are working out of a heated glue pot. Some of the guys in the business being concerned with production time use a similar fish glue that cures a bit quicker - especially under a small modeling iron. A 4" spackle knife and/or 3" roller as used for formica or tile work also aids in embedding the glue into the fabric fibers after you've positioned your cloth.

To conclude, I'll just say that I won't even consider doing a reline job if I suspect that a super adhesive has been used since I will literally have to sand it and the fabric out of the case interior for a considerable expense of time and frustration. Hope this is of some help.

Gotta go with Bob Harris on the hide glue. Piano actions have lots and lots of felt parts glued onto wood. The traditional glue is hide glue. It holds felt fast to wood, and just a little steam and it releases the felt for easy replacement.

Gentlemen,
Where do you purchase Hide Glue? Will I find it in a hardware store, or is there a specialty source? Thanks

Robert has given you some good advice. That said plain ol' Elmers white glue has the same attributes as animal glue without the hassels; and is cheap and readily available. I've used it on all the cases I've relined and even stripping a case after the glue dries is no problem(don't ask why I know this; just make sure you have enough fabric on hand), it acts just like the original animal glues used in english trunk cases; mist with water and it softens right up. It works for case labels as well. If you do have a bit glue that seeps through the fabric you can easily clean it up. Wait till the glue dries and use a spray bottle set to mist, spray the spot, brush it up with a toothe brush, dab with a cloth or vaccuum the area, and watch the glue dissapear.I use plastic spackel knifes and plumbers flux brushes to spread the glue and another knife to press the fabric. Good luck.

To Sharpsrifle,

If you are looking for actual hide glue, you can try any major lumber yard or hardware center. Ace Hardware carries it out our way, as made by 'Titebond', and you'll likely find it from other glue manufacturers as well. If not on the shelf, ask them to order it......and get the quart as it will save you some money over buying the smaller 8 oz. squeeze bottles.

Robt.

Mr. Harris had hit the hap'nny nail squarely on its crown. Forget hide glue - it stinks to high heavens, is a nightmare to get to original consistency unless hermetically sealed and temperature-controlled stored. Elmer's white glue is OK but too runny to suit me. The best stuff I've found yet is Alene's Tacky Glue, sold in nearly all first-line fabric stores and most chain specialty arts & craft stores like Total Crafts, Frames for You, U-be Frames, etc., you get the idea. Comes in small (4-oz.) burnt-orange colored tubes with a white needle-nose spout top. It has perfect consistency to work over time; stays gummy but won't run unless you over-apply, very easy to clean up and actuallly does DRY CLEAR, which a lot of that stuff so-advertized does not. Only consideration is that it is water soluble, so think about what application you are going for (e.g, exterior components to a gunslip, etc.). Don't even go near synthetics - they are like dealing with roofing cement. If you make a mistake on a wooden case lining and try to take the fabric up, those things will actually lift the wood fibers! Worst job I ever took on was - I swear - a Loius Vuitton trunk case for a SxS Greener Empire 12 ga. I actually had to use a wire cone brush on a power drill to claw out the old pukey-green lining which had been glued down with synthetics. I've done a lot of them but that was the worst! KBM

Huh? No way. You can either get it pre-mixed and in liquid form, or you buy the chips, put them in water on a double burner or a baby bottle warmer and just warm it up. The glue goes down warm, it has a reasonably pleasant odor (certainly doesn't stink to high heavens) and works as advertised. You can buy the glue chips/flakes from places like Woodworker's Supply. Ortolan must have been using this stuff from a different planet because my experience (albeit on pianos - but dozens of them) certainly is diametrically opposite from what he is espousing.

Yeah, what Zircon said.... I've always enjoyed working with the stuff and have never had temp problems when slightly heated. Are we talking the same product, Kevin?

Robt.

Hide glue from the hardware store has a definite shelf life. The date used to be stamped on the back of brown plastic bottle, in tiny white illegible numbers. The reason for this dating was that the urea -- used to keep the glue from just re-linking it's molecular strands of protein chains back into a semisolid in the bottle -- also eventually will destroy the ability of the chains to link at all. Think: 'Velcro' with limp hooks and eyes. AND -- when the protein and water mix starts to "go off", it definitely will be odorous, as well as thin and runny.

However, the current mix in the brown plastic bottle in the paint section seems to have a longer shelf life. As well, I use them rather quickly, anyway. It is quite useful in the restoration biz, including as an adhesive for putting down pool table felt in cases, traveling desks, and tables. As well, it is well suited to tedious wood repairs, due to it's long open time AND the fact that it can be undone, in the case of a clamp slippage or my own miscalculation of something.

Depending on what application is being undertaken, one can also choose from several strength grades of granular hide glue, which is warmed with water to no more than F 135 degrees. Going higher tends to cook the protein, lessening it's strength. The highest 'gram strength' grades were actually painted on plate glass in decorative patterns, where the strength of their adhesion when curing would cause glass chips to spall out the surface, creating twining vines with leaves, or other motifs.

Like the use any material, a good deal of reading about it's use, the patience to try and fail until successful, and the ability to learn from and to fix one's mistakes are helpful to the would-be craftsman. Hide glue is nice about that process, being easy to try, try, try again. Cleans up nicely with warm water or a bit of white vinegar, BTW. And it's a damn good glue, too.

Now: comes now the fly in the olde-tyme pantry for reciepts to the laying of baize, felt, leather and the like. The traditional material was and is wheat paste, and a good one it is, tho tedious somewhat in it's proper preparation. Soooo .... you must now pay me five hundred dollars, for my weekend course in the use of modern materials in lieu of the sticky old stuff.

Or you can just read this paragraph for free, I suppose: vinyl wallpaper paste will do all the needed stuff for the cloth[s] under discussion, nicely. It doesn't go all mouldy like wheat paste, nor does it require an interest in fundamental traditional woodworking materials and their uses, nor do you have to use materials that cannot be 'undone'.

The small family shop that puts down VERY expensive leather tops on fine furniture for Sotheby's in NYC uses ordinary, over the counter, vinyl wallpaper paste in a plastic bucket. It spreads easily, has a long open time, allows repositioning of boo-boo's, cleanup is plain water, the nap of the cloth can brushed out, and it is cheap.

The stuff is handy, cheap, and does the job as well as the most complicated or toxic or insoluble adesive. It actually is easier to work worth than any of them. Commercial liquid hide glue as describe in other posts above, is the second choice, and it's adhesion is much stronger, for applications where the cloth is constantly being stressed, subjected to sheer pressures, or being shoved about in some manner.

Hide glue on one's fingers and using the keys on a computer keyboard are not a compatible activity, BTW, should you keep a 'puter in the shop.

Adidas,

John,
As usual, you are a veritable font of information! I wll try your vinyl wallpaper idea as well as the Titebond liquid hide glue.

I "espouse" nothing having to do with hide glue - why fool with the ancient glop anyway, with so many other first-class adhesives available to save your time? KBM

Yep, quite apparent you've had nothing to do with hide glue. But that's ok, because those of us who have had the experience have a good idea of its benefits and uses.