I can hear the screaming already!

http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=932203&highlight=

The "Chinese Double" everyone was talking about a few months ago?

I would think they could have come up with a better name than model 1000-how successful was that one last time out?
Best,
Ted

Sounds like more great news. Another rounded B.L. This one hand engraved!! Wonder if they will be able to keep the price in the under $4,000 range like the RBL. If so they have a good shot at taking some of the RBL and Gold Label market. wonder who the industry veterans are. Wonder where the guns will be made? Sounds like the manufacturing location has already been constructed - anyone know where in the world a new gun facility has been built in recent years?
All good news.

It sure sounded like Turkey!

Ah, yes.

The new Super Ten, at 8 1/2 lbs, with the MOI of a quail gun. Right?

NO!!!? Phooey -- well, who cares then? ;~`)

I think a lot of people will be surprised at these guns -- especially the doubles.

I've seen them. Next week I shoot them.

They are made in a brand-new factory in Turkey. The plant was built for S&W.

The internals on the double guns are beautiful.

After I shoot them next week, I'll post a report and photos on http://www.guntalk.com. The following Sunday (I hope) we will have a S&W rep on the radio show.

It takes a lot of guts to build a new factory and create a new line of guns. From what I've seen so far, these are going to be interesting guns.

Turkey is the new Spain.

I wish I bought their stock last year !
http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:s...cale=on;source=

Here is a article in Forbes about them entering the Shotgun market.
http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/16/smith-w...artner=yahootix

It's just another Turkish gun with someone else's name on it. Turkish guns are obviously improving. Some day they'll sell well with their own names on them. If S&W was making their own guns in the US it might actually be interesting - perhaps even exciting.

More Turkish crap. S&W brand name means nothing on a long gun. Their last subcontracted shotgun was a stinker.

You know, I read that S&W media release linked above on this thread and I just want to puke... Talk about blah blah blah boilerplate language, and the same ole same ole puffy words. Here is one line that typifies the hype but in reality empty language of that entire piece:

"...The Smith & Wesson Elite Series will provide consumers with high-end shotguns in a value-added price range..."

Truly, "high-end shotguns in a value added price range" means just about zippo. It may sound "good" to the untrained ear, but in reality it means puff. High end is so subjective, and if I hear one more stuffed shirt corporate type say "value added price range" in describing anything I may just pop a gasket in my value-added conscious brain.

...Moreover, I hate being called a "consumer".... call me a person, call me a man, call me a buyer, even a customer.... but consumer just sounds so much like a device that does one thing: consume. Aren't we all more than that? can't pompous and out of touch marketing/media types get with the program and stop looking down on people who may or may not buy their products in part on how they address us??? How 'bout a little respect? (Rodney Dangerfield style)!?!

You mean the semiauto S&W shotguns? A friend had a pair of the skeet guns these had wide Tula chokes, sort of a blunderbuss look. He had a pair with him so when one broke at a shoot he just racked it and picked up the other. Actually they were nicely made in Japan, Kawagucha, some thing like that, not bad value for the money.
Mike, waiting in vain for his gold stars, may be I should send Mr Weber a contribution, actually I should anyway, seeing how I have learned and taught so much on this board, been fun too.
Mike

There you go Mike. 5 big ones.

Yogi,
At least they didn't call it a "shooting solution"

While there is justifiable criticsm of some low end products, they are not/were not only made overseas, i.e. Stevens 311/Fox model B, Marlin's O/U are only a couple. There is a market for "two shooters" priced between Remington's Biakal line and Tony Galazan's new RBL and the higher end Spanish or Italian or English guns. I have found what I say and do in haste I get to repent at my leisure. Personally I think I'll see ALL the cards before I venture an opinion. Finally the CZ/Hugulu(Turkey) guns I've sold have been well received and the 2 that required service were swapped for new guns within 10 days of leaving my shop. Try that with Remington or Ruger. Best, Dr. Bill

It's so much fun watching the folks post strong opinios on topics they know nothing about.

These are not guns being made for anyone else. They are new guns, made in brand new plant designed and built expressly, and exclusively for Smith & Wesson. You have not seen, and will not see, these guns with anyone else's name on them.

This afternoon I shot the doubles, the O/U, and the autos.

In a nutshell, pretty darn nice. There are some cosmetics I'd change, and I offered my thoughts. I think they will accept some of my suggestions.

Trigger plate actions. The bluing will be better on the production guns, they tell me. They are going to bone charcoal color case hardening. Wood will be grade 3 walnut on the first models. Better wood coming soon.

I'll have photos (and maybe video) on my web site in a day or so. http://www.guntalk.com I'm typing this in the Hartford airport, on the way back to Louisiana.

Anyone who thinks these are just renamed Turkish guns is out of the loop. Figure around $2100 for the double guns (20 gauge the first year). Street price may be a bit less. Rounded body (not really a Dickson-type round body, but nice). Non-automatic safety. Single trigger for now, but I'm pushing for double triggers in year 2. That would not be a problem.

The ones I shot had fixed chokes, but I suggested weeks ago that the production guns come with thin-wall choke tubes, and that's going to happen.

I think these guns will stand up well to anything in the market (new) at this price point.

The fact that the built a brand new plant to make these shows a level of commitment worth watching.

Not as nice as my Grulla. Certainly not as sweet as the Lebeau. Easily as nice as the Ruger. Think Winchester Model 23 or therebouts (in 2007 prices). Nah. Better than the 23.

Tom,
If they're better than the Win 23, they are pretty nice and I might even be interested in buying one, probably not in 20g since I'm in on the RBL and have other sxs 20g guns too. But a 28g or .410 might be interesting to me.

Tom,
One thing that seems to stick in my mind on guns made in countries not established as quality producer of guns is the question of steel quality and appropriate heat treatment. As I'm sure you've encountered, there are some lessor quality makers/models made in Spain and other countries that the heat treat or steel quality was less than desireable. I may be in the minority here on this concern, but it would greatly ease my concerns about the quality of the gun if the subject of steel quality and heat treatment (hardness) was covered in the reviews by journalists when dealing with gunmakers/sources that have not established a reputation of high quality.

So Tom,

"The bluing will be better..." How bad is it now?

"Going to bone charcoal..." What were the ones you saw finished in?

"Better wood coming..." The current wood is like what?

"Suggested they have choke tubes..." There goes half their market. Hope you didn't charge them a big consulting fee for that opinion.

"Not a renamed Turkish gun..." Made in Turkey, with a different name. What else could it be?

I'm still out of the loop.

I think Tom was clear that this is a completely new Turkish-made gun, not a renamed (existing) Turkish gun.

Was this plant built by S&W? If so why not in the USA? Oh.......it wasn't, so it's a Turkey gun with S&W on it! Sweeeeeet!

It's not a S&W, it's an H&W - Huglu & Wesson.

You go where the labor is cheap and the government is happy to have you build, which is not in this counrty. EPA does not appear in my English-Turkish dictionary. Labor unions is not in there also, or class action law suit. Do not blame S&W for making guns in Turkey. Blame us and the stupid lawsuits, excessive regulations, greedy politicians, high taxes and labor rates.

GM and Ford spend more on healthcare for their retired workers than steel to make cars. Viagria cost GM over ten million dollars each year alone. With automation and increased production per man hour of labor, major changes are in store for all the major car makers. Plant closings will occur in areas that have made parts or cars for 50 to 75 years. Towns and cities will become a very sorry place to live in or work when the car maker leaves. Thank GOD I am 50 and only have to watch this mess another 50 years.

S&W can make all the guns it wants in Turkey or even the moon for all that I could care. I have not forgoten their PC actions several years ago and will not be in line for any of their guns. There are more makers than I need and they are not one of the ones that I intend to buy from.

KY Jon, Americans shouldn't be beating up on themselves now because the benefits of great leadership, educations, entrepreunership and industrial capacity which made them the envy of the world weakened their international markets and shipped millions of jobs overseas. Who's to blame? None of the above was possible without the checks and balances of unions, automation, social legislation, strong courts and civil rights and, not least, a better-educated and informed middle class. There's still lots of steam in the United States. As for shotguns, I wouldn't trade any of my American classics for any of the new ones; all were made before 1938. There are tons of good ones still around. Regards, King

Well, Jon, I for one hope that you are correct about that next 50. I have no dogs in this fight, but I too remember the not too distant past and their woefully ill conceived posturing. I was not impressed, but it did not cause me to dispose of an old K-22 nor some brethern. Bean counters are the bane of product development and quality. In this case I sincerely hope the latter prevails. People come and go .. some, like shooters, are better than others. Some even learn from their mistakes.

edit: I don't mean this to be read the wrong way. I'm saying that I hope S&W comes up with a winner. We're all shotgunners here, Yes? I do not begrudge any attempt to cater to sportsmen nor to further the shooting sports, ever.

>>S&W can make all the guns it wants in Turkey or even the moon for all that I could care. I have not forgoten their PC actions several years ago and will not be in line for any of their guns<<

Now, THIS makes sense. My first wife was a shrew, so I'll hate my second wife.

As almost everyone knows, the people who did that stupid move at S&W are gone. The company has been sold. This is a new company, with new people, and it makes no sense at all to hold them responsible for what different people at a different company did.

And yet they want to use the famous Smith & Wesson name and trademark to launch a new product. It was the old company that established the reputation for excellent products, and the new guys want to cash in on the name.

Yep. The new guys bought the name. They are making good guns. They are doing the right things.

I'm confused. What would you have had them do with the name?

Tom, shrew's phone #? I have a friend.

Eightbore. I'm lucky. Married to the same wonderful woman for 33 years.

However, I know of several shrews, if your friend needs to really mess up his life1

I'll try to get more photos and a quick report up on the Gun Talk web site before I have to leave for New Mexico on Monday.

I've given Tom's question some thought. Without being rhetorical or facetious, what I would have S&W do with their name is restore it. Same with Winchester and Remington.

Restore the name.

Actually, that's a great idea. What, in your opinion, would be necessary for that to happen?

Okay. Allow me to suggest that this either has been done, or is in the process. Not sure exactly where each person would put the progression.

As I walked down the line yesterday and saw 80 million dollars worth of new, 7-axis CNC machines turning out guns which are so much better than those being made in the "good old days," it seemed to me the the company, and the name, are back.

The tolerances they now work with are a hundreth of what it used to be. In the old days, if you dinged the side plate of your revolver, you had to send the gun back. None of them were the same, and each required hand fiting -- expensive. Now, they are interchangeable. Pistol barrels are much more accurate -- match grade on all models.

There is a spirit of innovation and quality there that has not been seen in 15 or 20 years. And, they are open to suggestions.

I didn't know what I would find there, but I was quite impressed.

Sandy Froman, president of the NRA, will be there next week. S&W will be doing some big things with the NRA.

One of the things I know they are doing to "restore" the name is getting out of licensing deals for products which should not wear the S&W brand.

They are doing licensing of the brand with select companies -- those who make products compatible with the quality and venue (?) of Smith.

When Tom Taylor, head of sales and marketing, came to S&W from a soft drink company, I was really concerned. I took him aside and talked with him like a Dutch uncle. Since I don't work for them, they can't fire me! I talked about the lawsuits, the damage done by the previous owners and specifically Ed Schultz, the president. I told him that he needs to SHOOT and HUNT a lot. Personally.

To his credit, he has done exactly that. And, he listens to the experienced shooters and hunters on the staff. Of course, they have Jerry Michulek doing demos and product consulting. Julie Golosky, one of the top women shooters, now works in the office at Smith.

The double guns will not be on a par with best guns. Not even with the top Italian or Spanish guns. But, they will, I think, be very nice guns at the price point. Also, I expect to see subtle improvements over the next couple of years -- maybe just offers of high grades -- which may be attractive to traditional doublegun lovers.

Yes S&W wants to restore its name and perhaps make amends for its past sins to gun owners but they are doing something right for the most important people that they need to.Their shareholders.YOY qtr rev's are up a wopping 47% ! Thats amazing and the shareholders are being rewarded as they should be.This is a public company they have one main purpose,make money for the owners-the shareholders.
They may not be making a double that many here would stand in line for but this is much more "seasoned" group then the general gun buying public. I suspect many of the buyers of this double (and I do believe it will be a sucess) will move up to the doubles we here enjoy.Lets not look down our noses at SWHC for creating more double gun enthusiasts who will be buying what we want to sell to buy something even better.

I still have mine...

CZ is also made by Huglu in turkey,I have nothing good about them
Jack

I really don't like the name so garishly stamped on the barrels. Other than that, it looks like a nice entry level double, similar to a grade 1 uggie, except it's missing a trigger. The scalloped action is a nice touch too.