can anyone help me get an idea on teh value of an american arms derby in 28 ga it appears to be a spanish true sidelock gun in excellent condition.

Hi Pointer and welcome to the forum!!! Great folks here with lots of knowledge and helpful info. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

The American Arms Derby is a true sidelock gun (5 pin) there were two makers, Francisco Serriugarte and Zabala Hermanos. The Derby was available in both a coin or case color finish and also with SNST or DT. I have a Derby made by Serriugarte in coin finish and ST. It has been a good gun, but I did have a problem with the ST, which is now resolved. The fit and finish on mine is very good, not great but good. You can tell the difference between the S.F. and Z.H. by the engraving pattern and the F.S. is stocked to the fences.

As to value, it all depends on the maker as well as condition and also if the gun is a two bbl set. Values I've seen run from $600 to $2100.

Hope this helps!!

Again, welcome to the forum!!

Greg

The 28-ga. Derby is built on a 20-ga. frame, because of this it will weigh more than a 20-ga. Derby. Why then would you want one? I have seen them listed with asking prices at about a grand or a little more.

I too own a Derby produced by F. Sarriugarte. Although I bought it for quail hunting, I have used it for dove, woodcock, snipe, and duck. It has performed flawlessly and I would recommend them to any upland hunter looking for a quality sidelock ejector at an affordable price. One of the best buys to be found anywhere in my opinion.

Sarriugarte will bring more than the Zabala models as they are higher quality guns. The Zabala models will usually bring somewhere between $600-$1200 (sometimes more). The Sarriugarte models will usually bring between $1000-$1500 (although I have seen them listed for much more). I have also seen 28's and 410's list for well over $2000. I don't know if they sold though.

What is the asking price, if you don't mind me asking? Can you post some pictures?


Here a Zabala Derby...
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=10063

Compare that to my Sarriugarte Derby...






Adam

About eight years ago I brokered a purchase between two friends of a rather plain Derby 28 sidelock made by the Hermanos. They exchanged $450, which seemed like quite a deal but all the seller wanted.

The new buyer liked it a lot, and a few years later took it to Alaska for a ptarmigan hunt. He ended up giving it as a gift/tip to a young lady there who had acted as their guide. He now has asked me if I can find him another one!

As noted above, the problem with these guns, as 28's, is the weight. I had one to field test at the same time as a Parker-Hale (Ugartechea) boxlock. I bought the Ugartechea because it weighed what a 28ga game gun should. But if you don't mind the weight, they're OK guns and the prices are decent.

Another way to determine who manufactured the gun is to look at its age. The Sarriugarte Derby models were imported starting in the 70's (I think) until '86. After that, American Arms switch to Zabala Hermanos as their manufacturer. They continued to import them until the late 90's, I guess.

Best of luck to you!

Adam

There were atleast three manufacturers of the Derby, F. Sarriugarte and Zabala Hermanos as noted above. Armas Erbi also built them---they were known as "Erbi Derby's".

In regards to quality, I do not believe you can make a blanket statement that one manufacturer was better than another at producing the Derby, but rather you have to inspect and judge each individual gun to determine its quality. I have seen junk and I have seen guns that weren't too shoddy by each of these manufacturers.

thanks for all of the input, Dave Trevallion told me this was the place to go for info. I will find out Mon. which maker, the gun is not marked with manufacturer. My guess is zabala but we will see. It is an snst but I don't recall if it was stocked to the fences. It is color case as well. I'll keep you posted. I originally was looking for a .410 cz to play around with on woodcock but i found this and thought it may make a nice companion for a 28 matador I bought last year, you see I have twin 13yo sons who started carrying guns and woodcock hunting last year! Thanks again

pointer, check this site for Spanish makers marks. Many of the later ones have the makers mark in front of the serial #.

http://personales.jet.es/rafa/b_punzones_larga_lisa.html

Jim

Adam, The gun is a Zabala and he is asking 1995.00 I have offered 800.00 and would go 1200.00...maybe. Unlikely that he will accept. But I am in no hurry to purchase one. I can't send photos but the gun is very close to new condition. I think with a built up finish the gun would really look quite lovely.