doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - E Smith and Sons, Birmingham

I have this 12 bore that is a rather smooth self opener. It has 28" barrels and weighs a surprising, to me, 5# 15 oz. Bores still perfect at .729". Gun was made between 1954-1961 when the firm closed in Birmingham. Edwin Smith was an actioner and gun maker from 1914 to closing. Serial #276. Can anyone identify the self opening system ?

Here are the "inside" views.



I see from the Birmingham mark, that it was proofed in 1963, a couple of years after the history I read said they closed.

When assembling the gun, the forend needs to start out at about 45 degrees to the bore, then pressed down , lowering [raising] the cocking dogs, to then latch on the Anson push rod.

The pin pattern on the locks will have very little if anything to do with the actual mechanism used to make the gun either a self opener or easy opener.
Pins located on the action body itself will tell more.

I talked to Douglas Tate, author on British guns, and he suggested the following on Edwin Smith. Of course no records are known to exist, but this is his take. It seems that gunman might have been spot on when he "remembered" seeing the assisted opener on a Churchill.

"Edwin V. Smith was a gun action maker in the Birmingham gun trade who is unquestionably most famous today for his Patent 372,035 of 1931for an easy opening side by side. Drawings (page 181 Modern Shotgun Vol, I Major Burrard, attributed to Rosson) show a boxlock, but the broad concept can be adapted to sidelocks too.

It’s a system most often associated with the Connaught by Westley Richards, the Hercules, and Utility by E. J. Churchill, the Regent, Eclipse and Norfolk models by C. S. Rosson. These guns were made in Birmingham, some by Keene & Curry and some undoubtedly by Smith himself. They have longer than usual cocking dogs and that cock springs in order to get the fore-arm onto the gun. Does yours?"

As noted earlier the forend of the E. Smith is attached in the method outlined in Mr. Tates last sentence.

I asked about the possible engravers of the Smith gun and Mr Tate responded. I find his conjecture interesting on the time when the gun quarter was altered for roads.

"The game birds are bog standard Birmingham game birds of the era. Busby & Stockton or Harry Morris are likely candidates.

And now for some conjecture: Your proof marks date from exactly when the gun quarter was destroyed to make way for the ring road. The old chap likely decided to hang up his apron rather than retire. The unsold barreled actions intended for WR or Rosson would have been proofed, stocked and finished then sent to a dealer. I'm guessing that 's why you have a Smith with the Smith name on it."

Some clues eliminate some systems.

Cocking dogs eliminate it from being a Baker system (think Lancaster 12/20, etc)

It’s obviously not any Beesley type system

It’s obviously not a H&H system


Possibly a Boss type easy opener? A pic of the internals would confirm.


Daryl,
Do the ejector stems have constant pressure on them? When the gun is disassembled, are the ejector stems sticking out like they’ve been fired?



No visible pin for holding the bolt system for the Smith easy opener…

It could be the later Churchill/Baddock patent of 1936 “jumping Jack” system that was a redesign of the Smith system?

I have seen something similar, possibly a Churchill but dont hold me to that . The back work locks give a clue that there will be springs of some sort on the cocking dogs/ lifters .Need to remove the locks to see .

Seasons greetings to all ,
Graham .