doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - patterning distances

When patterning a gun for hunting, at what distance do you like to shoot? At 16 yds, at 30 or 40, or at the range you expect to take most of your shots?

I'm looking to pattern a "new" 2" x 12b for grouse. I think 20 or 25 yds might be the best when experimenting with different loads, but what's the forum's consensus opinion?

No I bought it for quail and hoped for a few grouse hunts. I shot maybe a thousand Skeet targets with it. It was a neat little gun but it was just a 12 who identified as a 20/28. Those 2", roll crimped Federal Paper hulls were so good looking. And few things smell better than smoke coming out of a paper empty hull on a cool morning. As to chokes, mine was IM in both barrels. Like most it was made by Skimin & Wood. It said J & W Tolley on the side but was a S & W of the British type. In fact I think S & W ended up buying Tolley in the end.

But my quail efforts went for nothing when the State introduce Turkeys on my land. I can not prove that turkeys were the last nail, but I would gladly shoot them all and start over again. To hear a Bob call in the evening would keep my heart young. Over 25 years I spent a large amount of money trying to restore quail to my land. Twice I was certain I was going the right direction, only to have one crash due to extreme weather and the a forever crash to an invasive turkey pest only exceeded by the pestilence of white tail deer. All the DNR cares about are deer numbers and turkey numbers. Both overrated and out of control as far as I am concerned. On any evening I can show you 20 to 50 deer on one of my farms. The crop damage they cause is no laughing matter. My best farm had 8-12 large, healthy coveys at one point and now has only one or two. In the county I grew up in what once was 800-1200 coveys now would be lucky to be 50 coveys. Part due to development, part due to hedge row removal, herbicide, insecticides, no predator control and near criminal indifference from the DNR. I'm sure now it is all global warmings' fault.

This ......... absolutely.

I proved that for myself many years ago when I won AA class in the S X S event at the 2010 U.S. Open at Tunica, MS. I was shooting an out of the box BSS with 30" barrels and the factory Mod (RT) and Full (Left) chokes. I have shot an old Perazzi with Mod. and Mod. (.020") competitively at sporting clays for the last 15 years or so, and it has made me a much better shooter. I've shot two or three 100 X 100 scores and numerous 99 X 100s with it. I tried the "normal" way of using a gun with screw-in chokes and changing them to suit the presentation at nearly every station but found that to be counter-productive for me. For me it introduces the negative thought that I need to open up my pattern to the maximum usable amount in order to "keep from missing" a close or erratic target. Knowing that I can drop two shells in the chambers and break any presentation they will show me on a reasonably set course gives so much more confidence in myself and my gun. And, that translates into dustballs, which builds confidence even more.

A zone of 24” to about 26” on the pattern plate at specific yardage where the target can’t get through a sure kill zone in a 30” circle. The outer fringe of the 30” circle may or may not result in a kill. That area often times results in chips with clays. Anyways, that’s what I look for when patterning. It’s pretty tough to get a complete 30” circle of pattern that will always result in a kill.

not something that i have ever tried, but i have seen numerous references to homemade spreader devices....two rectangles cut from thin rigid plastic - with dimensions dictated by available space (inner diameter of hull & height between undershot wad and osc). center cut each one to half the height, and slip them together to create an X, that will separate the shot charge into four equal parts - such a set-up has been cussed/discussed many times over the years as a possible spreader.

perhaps, look at using a thinner fiber wad(s) column - softer wad columns promote tighter patterns...so, logically harder wad columns should promote more open ones...

have also seen folks advocate using 1 or 2 thin disks (possibly some of the ultra thin overshot cards) interspersed amidst the shot charge....to separate the shot into 2 or 3 "compartments".

best regards,
tom

Last spring, I bought a new Browning BT-99. I had not shot but a few rounds of clay (trap) targets in about 6-8 years. I was really struggling- lucky to break 12-15 at singles. And I was disappointed I didn't do better with the Browning. So I put it back in the safe and pulled out the ol' Ljutic. 9.6 pounds. It took me a while to get my timing back, but I started shooting a lot better. It has a full choke. 33" barrel. Al Ljutic taught people to shoot his guns at the target when it reaches its apex (or the peak of its arch.) That's the way I shoot. I don't shoot at the target when it is on its rise. That way, it makes the target appear to be stationary (unmoving) on your straight aways. Of course, trap shooters stack the beads on their guns because if they shoot at a rising target, they have to stack the beads on the gun. But if I shoot at a target that appears to be sitting still, I have to align the beads rather than stack them. That means the target is going to be out there a lot farther if I wait to shoot at a target when it reaches its peak. But the loads that I use, catch up to the target very quickly. .........I went back last week and pulled out the Browning and had to figure out which choke to use. The gun came with an IM choke, so that is the one I used. Last week I broke my first 25 straight at singles trap in probably a decade. Did you ever get in one of the modes where you felt like you could hit everything with your eyes closed? The second round I broke 23. But I'll stick with the IM choke for now. It works fine at longer distances. Yesterday I faltered and broke 23 & 21. I noticed with the IM choke, I can shoot anywhere around the target within a foot (except for behind it) and the IM choke will break the target. I get tired very quickly. But I'm happy........... Tamid, if you use a full choke, it will make you a lot better shooter. That is what I should be doing. But I am going to keep the open IM choke at singles trap for a little while. Then maybe work my way down to a full choke. Thanks guys. Take care.

William Harden Foster, ‘New England Grouse Shooting’, “we find that the average distance at which grouse were killed throughout the seasons was in the neighborhood of twenty-three yards”.

Not many grouse here, but for hunting woodcock and quail with my flushing dog, I like to see what the right barrel does at 20 and 30 yards and the tighter choked left barrel at 30. For assessing where the barrels shoot relative to point of aim, I like to use a rest and shoot at a short enough distance that the pattern is just a few inches wide, 10-20 yards depending on choke.

My 2 cents. 16 yards for gun fit (stock dimensions), point of impact, and barrel convergence. Pattern density of choke constrictions/ammo, etc, should be checked at the expected range of the target.

Doesn't seem very hard to me, Jimmy. Do you not reload? Not much goes through my head except "Get 'em" when one flushes.

After 50 yrs of quail hunting and only my personal observation, but I believe that fescue proliferation EVERYWHERE is the biggest culprit to the demise of the bobwhite quail. Having said that, However, I do realize there is more to it than just fescue, but fescue is horrible imho.

What a dolt. If you must pattern, do it at the distance your birds flush, as you will be right on them.

Sorry Doc Buzz, I wouldn’t call you a dolt, but that’s how Brent and I converse. I thought it would be okay on his thread, but I can see that others may not share the same connection.

By the way, I like his picture of the country side, two hundred years ago, but where’s the pattern board? Best thought from others, take a picture of the pattern and count or analyze in the comfort of one’s home, later. Might also consider a grouse sized point of aim and don’t adjust if the point of aim is off, learn from it. For lighter loads, maybe send two loads at the plate, before refreshing, and don’t count, just look for trends?

Only my opinion. 16 yds you're not going to get much more open patterns with any choke, device, majic etc. At about 25 yds. things start happening. Tighter choke takes effect at 30+ yds. Make sure it shoots where you point and shoot the damn thing! Spreaders effect tighter chokes much more dramatically than open chokes, not much change with Cyl. or IC.
Chief

For many years, I prefer shooting light shot weight for bore, and moderate velocities, through tighter chokes on game. Clean, effective, and it’s not a big concern to me if I’m losing out on a few edge hits on a more open pattern.

Buzz, craigd was obviously responding in a perfectly appropriate manner after the Nutty Professor referred to him as a Dolt in the Simon Says Thread. In my opinion, craigd is far too nice to the Libtards who frequently attack him. But you should know how selective civility and selective moderation works by now.

Remember, this is the hypocrite who complains about personal attacks and name calling, and who runs a one (pick a pronoun) campaign to defund this site. This is also the same hypocrite who tells us that Upland Journal forum is better in every way. Brad Eden, the administratior of Upland Journal forum, would not tolerate this behavior. So the people who complain the most about Dave Weber's tolerance also frequently benefit from it.