doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - Gunshow shopping kit

Grouse Guy's question about measuring cast got me thinking about my upcoming trip to Tulsa in a few weeks. I've never been there, but I'm going with a goal in mind to buy a 12b-2" gun. Given that, maybe it would be interesting to see what other folks bring in the way of tools to inspect a potential purchase. I will load my pockets or a shoulder bag with a bore light, tape measure, fish scale, and magnifying glass for sure. I may bring a bore scope, but I'd leave it in the truck until I really absolutely needed it, and I don't see that happening. What else to carry around?

As often as I see dealers selling high priced guns that haven't seen a brush and patch in the bore in years, I am tempted to bring a take down rod with brush and some patches. I suppose some dealers don't want to know what is under the dust and lint, but if it is bad enough, and I was serious about the gun, I'd be cautious about dealing for a fuzzy-bore gun that a dealer would not let me wipe out.

I don't have barrel measuring gauges, so, as much as I would would like to know, I'll have to take my chances. I wish I had a plug that could measure chamber length. I may try to make one, but not sure if I can do it with sufficient precision.

What sort of tools do others take?

EDD s comments should let you know what kind of crap he is hawking and how he views you as a potential customer .

The OP asked a reasonable question.

For no reason that I can fathom, Mr. Good (if that's your real name), you are behaving like an ass.

Take a piece of one thousandth inch (.001") feeler gauge - if the gun closes on that, it's off the face.

In keeping with the positive question at the start of this thread, what tools would I take, and have actually taken to Gun shows and the local Cabelas gun room, etc.

An exhaustive list of absolutely everything, probably overkill:

-A very Bright flashlight. (Useful depending on lighting)

-Cleaning rod with patches, like you I have been amazed looking down barrels that were not cleaned since last firing, I doubt it was deliberate to hide something, but is indicative of a failure to care enough. I have experienced this even with some sellers I like and now consider friends.

-Chamber Gauge for whatever gauge you are intending to buy (long term having chamber gauges in at least 12/16/& 20 is very useful)(note some chambers were made so tight they appear short on chamber gauges, but when checked with a Skeets gauge show to be good)

-Bore Gauge to verify bore and degree of choke, and chambers sometimes (again a tool most should have and worth the investment)(without a wall thickness gauge being able to measure bores can help)

-Tape Measure

-Snap caps (though many gun shows put trigger locks or zip ties on the triggers)(if 2in is your focus then cut one down or have one short enough)(used for checking safety, trigger, strikers, and ejectors

-Manson gauge for wall thickness or better an Ultrasonic Wall Thickness Gauge (the Manson gauge is better than nothing and was my go to tool - but a quality Ultrasonic Wall Thickness Gauge provides better data more easily, though at a stiff price)

-Loop of 550 cord for hanging Manson gauge and to hang barrels to ring.

-A postal scale (to weigh overall gun and to weigh the barrels separately)(I weigh all my barrels which from experience does indicate

-Trigger pull gauge (some of us are sensitive to too light or heavy a pull, though I have not used it much if the triggers felt ok, which they normally do)

-A fulcrum or balance to rough check the CoB (I record CoB in relation to the front trigger not the hinge pin)

-A stiff wood dowel or cut off yard stick (to place on rib to aid in measuring cast, drop, etc)

-A reference card for proof marks or shortcut on your phone

-A cloth and oil bottle to wipe down gun when done handling it (can also be used to pour down the rib if the ringing indicated a fault to see if the loose spot can be easily be shown)

-Though I have never brought one a cradle to hold the gun is useful too.

Everything fits in a gym bag.

Most sellers are decent guys, I do not carry the stuff to avoid being taken, but because many sellers are not as educated or equipped and I want to be sure. I also do not go through the trouble of measuring a gun if I am not really interested in buying it. I am always especially concerned about the barrels. It is not for the purpose of pushing down the price, but does disqualify a gun from consideration that was otherwise of interest. I have the kit in my car, but if I do not see the right gun, I do not bother taking it inside.

Over the internet asking questions of sellers has shown me most sellers are not expert, however well intended. Asking minimum wall thickness is most often stupefying. Looking at a gun in person is always better. On several occasions I have been lucky enough to set an appointment to meet a dealer I initially found on the internet at a nearby gun show. I have ended up buying on two of three occasions, though one was not the gun I went to see, but a different one on the same dealers table.

I have found talking through things positively all but one time I have met agreement in checking a gun out. In fact several times sellers have taken notes so they could remember the data. Some sellers are fascinated as they have never seen some of the things I have or measured some of the things I can.

Beg, borrow or steal a skeetz type bore gauge. While it won't measure mwt it will at least tell you how much honing was done if any. Gil

Brent,
Along with the usual things mentioned, I'll include digital calipers as well as a three piece rod and brushes with patches. Long ago I avoided a mistake by discovering that baby/talcum powder was used to hide barrel defects. You would think that someone serious about selling the gun would have the bores clean and shiny. It always amazes me how many are presented with rust bloom in the barrels!
Karl

Serious dealers, looking to sell the type gun you are looking for often expect a higher level of evaluation of their guns. But the one tool you really need, looking for a 2" gun is going to be barrel wall thickness measuring of some type. They, 2" guns barrels all started out thin, and you must find a gun with more than minimum barrels wall thickness to still be in proof. Not that dealers pay that much attention to "proof" in the US. High dollar guns deserve a higher level of evaluation and guns made with thin barrels when new do as well.

My Turner Lightweight appears to have a Westley Richards action and was made between 1875 and 1887 if memory serves on the proof marks. 6 lbs. 1 oz. Damascus 28" barrels, jug choked.

I believe that is the shortest forearm I've seen on a English double. I to dislike the scalloped stocks.

Just about all English makers did or would make any gun how the customer wanted it. But rarely have I seen a Westley Richards under 6-6oz.

My experience is the dealers appreciate a pair of those cheap brown cotton gloves.

Brent.
I use the digital ID/OD calipers to check muzzle/chamber among other things. These days, there are so many things to check!
Karl

Can you imagine taking Ed's word for ANYTHING?

You have a purse?

Why don’t you get a monocle while you’re at it.


_____________________________
Imagine . . . no possessions.

Oh, so we're just meant to take a gun dealer's word for everything?

OK.........

Edd look in the mirror

You occasionally hear this motto tossed around by merchants: "An educated consumer is our best customer." Obviously, some gun dealers prefer dealing in ignorance, either their own or their customers'.

Hahahaha, now that is some seriously funny shit Prof!

Ed's name is number 5 on the 2023 Doublegunshop donor list.... while you continue your one man campaign to defund this site. It certainly appears that Ed is quite a bit more useful than you.

My question is, why does he continue to subsidize your presence here??? And why would anyone wish to assist you with gun show gun evaluation tips and tools? I won't.

David,
Instead of the barrels, I check for loose ribs by tapping the ribs themselves with a bolster on my pocketknife and listen for a "hollow" rather than solid sound. Enen then a small loose section might show up, evidenced by either bubbles in the water tank or leakage when the barrels are removed from it.
Mike

Yep being an informed consumer takes the fun out of a hukster ripping people off ,selling tarted up turds.if a gun dealer won't let me do my due diligence then he won't get my business ,,no one enjoys finding problems with a gun down the road.and most honest dealers have a good return policy

Brent
The thing that I realized was that once you develop the necessary muscle memory for the weight of the gun, the magic happens. It will take practice and time, but it will happen. The lighter SxS's have spoiled me now, and has become a preference. Make sure the gun fits and that the balance suits you, I think you'll find it. I'm looking forward to your post of that prize. I think your incremental weight range of guns can be very useful.
Karl

Brent: There are the 2-inch 12-gauge guns and there are the "lightweights" built by various English makers. Both should fit the bill for what you're trying to do, and you're right, the chase is a big part of the fun. Lincoln Jeffries and another maker (can't recall the name, they had the scalloped-out stocks and the short forends) built them specifically, and in 2 1/2-inch 12. Both were well under 6lbs.

I haven't been to a gun show in years but my kit is still here and ready to go...

Cotton gloves.

Wipedown cloth

Skeets bore gauge

Bore light

Chamber gauge

Cleaning rod, patches, etc., I filled empty eyedrops bottles with Hoppes, etc.

AA Magnalite w/fiber optic extension

Small tape measure

Pen and pad

Plastic digital calipers, with the bore gauge I could get an in-exact idea of wall thickness, OD minus ID /2

Book of proofmarks

Set of Magna bits

Cash

My contact cards.

Copies of my C&R FFL, if you dabble in old guns, well worth it.

I also carried books about Savage 99's, Winchester Handbook, etc.

Gun sock

These days I also would carry the $30 borescope I got on Amazon that displays on phone or pad.

I also carried a copy of British Proof Laws.

Everything fit in a shoulder laptop case.

You are almost certainly right on both counts, but it is the hunt that counts. Stalking a 2" in the wild has already been a lot of fun, and I've never been to Tulsa, so that's an added benefit.

Rebuilding the Midland would work, but it would take a long, long time and I'm not that young anymore.

The show will be fun, and maybe I can sell my Smith 629 Mt. to increase the funding for the next gun, even if I don't find it in Tulsa. Just an adventure here in the late doldrums of winter while waiting on turkey season to commence.

Brent,
I had been looking for a light weight / open choked British gun for Woodcock and Grouse hunting for some time. Light weight meant 2 1/2" chambering as well. After nearly giving up I stumbled on it! It's a 1910 Churchill box lock with 26" barrels choked .003 & .011 weighing 5 lbs. 12 oz. AND it fit me! It had been shot very little and was in great condition. At the time it was Churchill's best and only box lock and I had to have it. With the shortage of RST's and other 2 1/2" ammo, I've simply fed it 2 3/4" light 7/8 oz. loads that replicate or less the recoil of the RST's and it has worked out well. I save my remaining RST 1 oz. loads for hunting.
The gun you seek is out there, don't give up!
Karl