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Forums10
Topics38,466
Posts545,106
Members14,409
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Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
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Birdog, BrentD, Prof, builder, ithaca1, John Roberts, Parabola, Run With The Fox, Stanton Hillis, tut, Wonko the Sane |
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Total Likes: 17 |
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| by Nitrah |
| Nitrah |
pretty sure this has been asked before but does the board know of a good 'smith that can open chrome lined barrels?
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| by Wonko the Sane |
| Wonko the Sane |
The whole chrome choke "problem" is so much bovine waste. The chrome is only a couple molecules thick and the tungsten cutters that any respectable smith uses goes through that like butter. But the myth is always good for a sweet additional fee.
Have a day
Dr. WtS
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| 2 members like this |
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| by Wonko the Sane |
| Wonko the Sane |
I was told by Orlen that chrome lined bores will not peel off, regardless whether you ream the chokes or not. He said that the chroming process is totally unlike a chrome car part, such as a bumper, which it is plated over another alloy. He said that the process used in barrels alloys the chrome with the steel bore, and it can never peel off. It is not plating, said he.
Just saying what I was told. Absolutely correct. It's also called chrome hardening and has a multitude of industrial applications Have a day Dr. WtS
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| 2 members like this |
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| by keith |
| keith |
Chrome lined rifle, machine gun, and shotgun barrels have bores that are indeed chrome plated. The process electroplates a very thin plating of chrome on the inside surface that is done for wear resistance, and in the case of rifles, inhibits erosion from hot powder gasses during rapid firing. The very smooth surface also makes cleaning and maintenance easier. The process for the bores of firearm barrels is specialized, and much different from the process that was used for decades to chrome plate bumpers and automotive trim. That was a multi-step process that involved an extremely thin electroplating of copper, followed by a much thicker layer of nickel, and then followed by a very thin layer of chrome. When this process was not done perfectly, sometimes the chrome would begin to delaminate, flake, and peel off. The exterior of some handguns were also plated this way, and we often see older ones that have the chrome flaking off. https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequenty-asked-questions-nitride-vs-chrome-lined/The chrome is not alloyed into the barrel steel. It is only deposited onto a surface that has been etched and prepared to ensure very good adhesion with the steel. However, there are alloys such as 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that contain roughly 0.1% chromium, along with molybdenum, and manganese that provide more toughness, corrosion, and abrasion resistance than the earlier low carbon barrel steels found in our vintage guns. Opening the chokes on a Chrome-Moly barrel will not remove the chrome. It is indeed alloyed into the steel. Many gunsmiths charge more to open chokes of chrome lined barrels simply because tooling such as the carbide reamers or cutters mentioned by Dr. Wanker are not used by most gunsmiths that do a lot of this work. Instead, they prefer to use something like a rigid Sunnen sizing hone. Also, the chrome plating, although very thin, is much more than "a couple molecules thick". And it simply takes a bit longer to properly get through the harder surface deposit of the chrome than it would to open the chokes by an equivalent amount on a vintage shotgun barrel with mild steel barrels. Time is money, and most gunsmiths charge for their time. Some may charge more, or even refuse to do the job, based upon myths and misconceptions about the job. When the surface layer is removed from your chrome lined chokes, the new polished surface in that area will be whatever alloy of steel the barrel was made from. Since the chrome lining is seldom much over .0015" thick, opening the chokes is going to completely remove it in that area. It is unlikely to be very evident if done correctly. But over time, the bare steel could begin to oxidize or show the effects of corrosion while the rest of the bore maintains its' chrome plated surface.
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| 2 members like this |
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| by Stanton Hillis |
| Stanton Hillis |
I was told by Orlen that chrome lined bores will not peel off, regardless whether you ream the chokes or not. He said that the chroming process is totally unlike a chrome car part, such as a bumper, which it is plated over another alloy. He said that the process used in barrels alloys the chrome with the steel bore, and it can never peel off. It is not plating, said he.
Just saying what I was told.
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| 1 member likes this |
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| by GLS |
| GLS |
I have a friend who is turkey choke manufacturer who also installs his chokes and he told me that the chromed steel is tough to cut threads into and among the hardest he works with are Benelli automatic barrels and all Yildiz shotguns.
Gil
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| 1 member likes this |
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| by L. Brown |
| L. Brown |
Quite a few gunsmiths have the equipment necessary to deal with chromed bores. Those that don't have it, in my experience, will tell you that and may very well recommend someone else (maybe local, if you're lucky) who can do it.
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| 1 member likes this |
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| by HomelessjOe |
| HomelessjOe |
I have a friend who is turkey choke manufacturer who also installs his chokes and he told me that the chromed steel is tough to cut threads into and among the hardest he works with are Benelli automatic barrels and all Yildiz shotguns.
Gil You're guy got his wires crOssed... If the chrome was built into the steel and not just an internal layer of chrome plating on the inside how could the outside of the barrel be blued ?
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| 1 member likes this |
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| by Stanton Hillis |
| Stanton Hillis |
So, this morning I picked up a shotgun I had bought and had shipped to my local FFL holder, who is Comp-N-Choke, a maker of aftermarket choke tubes. They also happen to do barrel work .......... opening chokes, cutting off barrels to a shorter length and threading for screw in choke tubes, porting, etc. While waiting for my background check to clear I questioned Stuart Boswell, who does the barrel work, about chrome lined bores. Here are his answers. Carbide tools are not required to do work on chrome lined shotgun barrels. The cutting tools just have to be sharp and you have to "go slow". Benelli and Yildiz brands are indeed harder to work than most others, but are manageable. He does a lot of Benellis for people who want their barrel cut down to 20"-21" and threaded for choke tubes, for turkeys, and said he often gets comments from prospective clients that think chrome lined barrels can't be cut, threaded, or ported. Stuart was pretty nonchalant about the whole thing, explaining that it is no big deal to cut, mill, or thread chrome lined barrels, if you know what you're doing. He does scores of barrels a year.
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| 1 member likes this |
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| by HomelessjOe |
| HomelessjOe |
Chrome lined rifle, machine gun, and shotgun barrels have bores that are indeed chrome plated. The process electroplates a very thin plating of chrome on the inside surface that is done for wear resistance, and in the case of rifles, inhibits erosion from hot powder gasses during rapid firing. The very smooth surface also makes cleaning and maintenance easier. The process for the bores of firearm barrels is specialized, and much different from the process that was used for decades to chrome plate bumpers and automotive trim. That was a multi-step process that involved an extremely thin electroplating of copper, followed by a much thicker layer of nickel, and then followed by a very thin layer of chrome. When this process was not done perfectly, sometimes the chrome would begin to delaminate, flake, and peel off. The exterior of some handguns were also plated this way, and we often see older ones that have the chrome flaking off. https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequenty-asked-questions-nitride-vs-chrome-lined/The chrome is not alloyed into the barrel steel. It is only deposited onto a surface that has been etched and prepared to ensure very good adhesion with the steel. However, there are alloys such as 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that contain roughly 0.1% chromium, along with molybdenum, and manganese that provide more toughness, corrosion, and abrasion resistance than the earlier low carbon barrel steels found in our vintage guns. Opening the chokes on a Chrome-Moly barrel will not remove the chrome. It is indeed alloyed into the steel. Many gunsmiths charge more to open chokes of chrome lined barrels simply because tooling such as the carbide reamers or cutters mentioned by Dr. Wanker are not used by most gunsmiths that do a lot of this work. Instead, they prefer to use something like a rigid Sunnen sizing hone. Also, the chrome plating, although very thin, is much more than "a couple molecules thick". And it simply takes a bit longer to properly get through the harder surface deposit of the chrome than it would to open the chokes by an equivalent amount on a vintage shotgun barrel with mild steel barrels. Time is money, and most gunsmiths charge for their time. Some may charge more, or even refuse to do the job, based upon myths and misconceptions about the job. When the surface layer is removed from your chrome lined chokes, the new polished surface in that area will be whatever alloy of steel the barrel was made from. Since the chrome lining is seldom much over .0015" thick, opening the chokes is going to completely remove it in that area. It is unlikely to be very evident if done correctly. But over time, the bare steel could begin to oxidize or show the effects of corrosion while the rest of the bore maintains its' chrome plated surface. Sounds correct to me....how these guys come up with this chrome is alloyed in is beyond me. Might be they've gone wOnkers or is it wAnkers ? I had a couple of Benelli Super 90s forcing cones opened years ago....(didn't do squat). I was under the impression that if you have the forcing cone or the choke opened on a chrome lined shotgun barrel the chrome is removed in that area....thus making the naked steel more susceptible to corrosion. Possibly even the chance of the chrome flaking as a result. If you're good with the chances go for it.
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