May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
2 members (smlekid, 1 invisible), 270 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,561
Posts546,340
Members14,423
Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
Thread Like Summary
Birdog, BrentD, Prof, builder, ithaca1, John Roberts, Parabola, Run With The Fox, Stanton Hillis, tut, Wonko the Sane
Total Likes: 17
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by Nitrah
Nitrah
pretty sure this has been asked before but does the board know of a good 'smith that can open chrome lined barrels?
Liked Replies
by Wonko the Sane
Wonko the Sane
The whole chrome choke "problem" is so much bovine waste. The chrome is only a couple molecules thick and the tungsten cutters that any respectable smith uses goes through that like butter. But the myth is always good for a sweet additional fee.
Have a day
Dr. WtS
2 members like this
by bushveld
bushveld
You will be wise to follow advice of John Roberts on this issue.
2 members like this
by Wonko the Sane
Wonko the Sane
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
I was told by Orlen that chrome lined bores will not peel off, regardless whether you ream the chokes or not. He said that the chroming process is totally unlike a chrome car part, such as a bumper, which it is plated over another alloy. He said that the process used in barrels alloys the chrome with the steel bore, and it can never peel off. It is not plating, said he.
Just saying what I was told.

Absolutely correct. It's also called chrome hardening and has a multitude of industrial applications

Have a day
Dr. WtS
2 members like this
by keith
keith
Chrome lined rifle, machine gun, and shotgun barrels have bores that are indeed chrome plated. The process electroplates a very thin plating of chrome on the inside surface that is done for wear resistance, and in the case of rifles, inhibits erosion from hot powder gasses during rapid firing. The very smooth surface also makes cleaning and maintenance easier.

The process for the bores of firearm barrels is specialized, and much different from the process that was used for decades to chrome plate bumpers and automotive trim. That was a multi-step process that involved an extremely thin electroplating of copper, followed by a much thicker layer of nickel, and then followed by a very thin layer of chrome. When this process was not done perfectly, sometimes the chrome would begin to delaminate, flake, and peel off. The exterior of some handguns were also plated this way, and we often see older ones that have the chrome flaking off.

https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequenty-asked-questions-nitride-vs-chrome-lined/

The chrome is not alloyed into the barrel steel. It is only deposited onto a surface that has been etched and prepared to ensure very good adhesion with the steel. However, there are alloys such as 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that contain roughly 0.1% chromium, along with molybdenum, and manganese that provide more toughness, corrosion, and abrasion resistance than the earlier low carbon barrel steels found in our vintage guns. Opening the chokes on a Chrome-Moly barrel will not remove the chrome. It is indeed alloyed into the steel.

Many gunsmiths charge more to open chokes of chrome lined barrels simply because tooling such as the carbide reamers or cutters mentioned by Dr. Wanker are not used by most gunsmiths that do a lot of this work. Instead, they prefer to use something like a rigid Sunnen sizing hone. Also, the chrome plating, although very thin, is much more than "a couple molecules thick". And it simply takes a bit longer to properly get through the harder surface deposit of the chrome than it would to open the chokes by an equivalent amount on a vintage shotgun barrel with mild steel barrels. Time is money, and most gunsmiths charge for their time. Some may charge more, or even refuse to do the job, based upon myths and misconceptions about the job. When the surface layer is removed from your chrome lined chokes, the new polished surface in that area will be whatever alloy of steel the barrel was made from. Since the chrome lining is seldom much over .0015" thick, opening the chokes is going to completely remove it in that area. It is unlikely to be very evident if done correctly. But over time, the bare steel could begin to oxidize or show the effects of corrosion while the rest of the bore maintains its' chrome plated surface.
2 members like this
by John Roberts
John Roberts
Skeet's Gunshop, Tahlequah, OK. Dean Harris, best there is.
JR
1 member likes this
by Stanton Hillis
Stanton Hillis
I was told by Orlen that chrome lined bores will not peel off, regardless whether you ream the chokes or not. He said that the chroming process is totally unlike a chrome car part, such as a bumper, which it is plated over another alloy. He said that the process used in barrels alloys the chrome with the steel bore, and it can never peel off. It is not plating, said he.

Just saying what I was told.
1 member likes this
by GLS
GLS
I have a friend who is turkey choke manufacturer who also installs his chokes and he told me that the chromed steel is tough to cut threads into and among the hardest he works with are Benelli automatic barrels and all Yildiz shotguns.
Gil
1 member likes this
by L. Brown
L. Brown
Quite a few gunsmiths have the equipment necessary to deal with chromed bores. Those that don't have it, in my experience, will tell you that and may very well recommend someone else (maybe local, if you're lucky) who can do it.
1 member likes this
by ithaca1
ithaca1
Carbide.
It's common for reamers.
No magic to it.
1 member likes this
by Wonko the Sane
Wonko the Sane
Originally Posted by ithaca1
Carbide.
It's common for reamers.
No magic to it.

Science - - like magic, only real !


Have a day
Dr.WtS
1 member likes this
by HomelessjOe
HomelessjOe
Originally Posted by GLS
I have a friend who is turkey choke manufacturer who also installs his chokes and he told me that the chromed steel is tough to cut threads into and among the hardest he works with are Benelli automatic barrels and all Yildiz shotguns.
Gil

You're guy got his wires crOssed...

If the chrome was built into the steel and not just an internal layer of chrome plating on the inside how could the outside of the barrel be blued ?
1 member likes this
by Stanton Hillis
Stanton Hillis
So, this morning I picked up a shotgun I had bought and had shipped to my local FFL holder, who is Comp-N-Choke, a maker of aftermarket choke tubes. They also happen to do barrel work .......... opening chokes, cutting off barrels to a shorter length and threading for screw in choke tubes, porting, etc. While waiting for my background check to clear I questioned Stuart Boswell, who does the barrel work, about chrome lined bores. Here are his answers. Carbide tools are not required to do work on chrome lined shotgun barrels. The cutting tools just have to be sharp and you have to "go slow". Benelli and Yildiz brands are indeed harder to work than most others, but are manageable. He does a lot of Benellis for people who want their barrel cut down to 20"-21" and threaded for choke tubes, for turkeys, and said he often gets comments from prospective clients that think chrome lined barrels can't be cut, threaded, or ported. Stuart was pretty nonchalant about the whole thing, explaining that it is no big deal to cut, mill, or thread chrome lined barrels, if you know what you're doing. He does scores of barrels a year.
1 member likes this
by HomelessjOe
HomelessjOe
Originally Posted by keith
Chrome lined rifle, machine gun, and shotgun barrels have bores that are indeed chrome plated. The process electroplates a very thin plating of chrome on the inside surface that is done for wear resistance, and in the case of rifles, inhibits erosion from hot powder gasses during rapid firing. The very smooth surface also makes cleaning and maintenance easier.

The process for the bores of firearm barrels is specialized, and much different from the process that was used for decades to chrome plate bumpers and automotive trim. That was a multi-step process that involved an extremely thin electroplating of copper, followed by a much thicker layer of nickel, and then followed by a very thin layer of chrome. When this process was not done perfectly, sometimes the chrome would begin to delaminate, flake, and peel off. The exterior of some handguns were also plated this way, and we often see older ones that have the chrome flaking off.

https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequenty-asked-questions-nitride-vs-chrome-lined/

The chrome is not alloyed into the barrel steel. It is only deposited onto a surface that has been etched and prepared to ensure very good adhesion with the steel. However, there are alloys such as 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that contain roughly 0.1% chromium, along with molybdenum, and manganese that provide more toughness, corrosion, and abrasion resistance than the earlier low carbon barrel steels found in our vintage guns. Opening the chokes on a Chrome-Moly barrel will not remove the chrome. It is indeed alloyed into the steel.

Many gunsmiths charge more to open chokes of chrome lined barrels simply because tooling such as the carbide reamers or cutters mentioned by Dr. Wanker are not used by most gunsmiths that do a lot of this work. Instead, they prefer to use something like a rigid Sunnen sizing hone. Also, the chrome plating, although very thin, is much more than "a couple molecules thick". And it simply takes a bit longer to properly get through the harder surface deposit of the chrome than it would to open the chokes by an equivalent amount on a vintage shotgun barrel with mild steel barrels. Time is money, and most gunsmiths charge for their time. Some may charge more, or even refuse to do the job, based upon myths and misconceptions about the job. When the surface layer is removed from your chrome lined chokes, the new polished surface in that area will be whatever alloy of steel the barrel was made from. Since the chrome lining is seldom much over .0015" thick, opening the chokes is going to completely remove it in that area. It is unlikely to be very evident if done correctly. But over time, the bare steel could begin to oxidize or show the effects of corrosion while the rest of the bore maintains its' chrome plated surface.

Sounds correct to me....how these guys come up with this chrome is alloyed in is beyond me.

Might be they've gone wOnkers or is it wAnkers ?

I had a couple of Benelli Super 90s forcing cones opened years ago....(didn't do squat).

I was under the impression that if you have the forcing cone or the choke opened on a chrome lined shotgun barrel the chrome is removed in that area....thus making the naked steel more susceptible to corrosion.

Possibly even the chance of the chrome flaking as a result.

If you're good with the chances go for it.
1 member likes this

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 2.878s Queries: 22 (2.864s) Memory: 0.7791 MB (Peak: 1.4341 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-05-27 07:33:20 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS