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For me the most difficult sporting target is a long, low crosser. I shoot swing through at most targets but can do sustained lead and pull away when needed. One of the places I shoot throws a clay that starts about 40-45 yards away and crosses right to left, actually coming in a little, so it lands about 40 yards out. It never gets higher than 5 ft. I know the lead has to be both well in front and below, but can't seem to get there. I remember watching one of the top US sporting shooters years ago mount and wait for a target to come into his window. Is this how you need to take a target such as I have described?

The problem with shooting a target like this one late, when it is slowing down or dropping, is that it is easy to miss such a appearing simple target. You have dead gun, stop your swing, aim, lift your head and then miss it cleanly. Targets are much easier and more predictable when they are under way. You can read the line and get a better estimation of the speed. For some they struggle with crossing targets and others struggle with raising teal or incomers who are dropping fast. But they all are fun.

I shot ZZ birds at Mikes ranch today all I can say its damn humbling. 😀

With any funky target that gets into a complex lead situation, near of far, I do best by going up-tempo, trust your first aim(Ok point). Our motto is ‘shoot it before the bad $h!t starts.’

30 yard ZZ

Slow long crossers are much more difficult than fast. It has to do with the fact a fast target has a more predictable line. You must stay on line. A 40-50-60 yard crosser needs lots of lead unless it’s a dying target where there’s less lead but you still have to be in front and on the line. I shoot pull away on the real long ones. Tough shot, but the slow bastards at distance are the roughest of the bunch. High incomers at distance, 50-60 yards and seem to stop at the peak are another very difficult shot and tougher than the long crosser, imho.

When I shot a lot of sporting, I would often move to a very different position to watch my partner shoot after I missed. I generally found that targets like this that are inexplicably harder were not flying exactly as they appeared from the stand. It would turn out that the trap was set at a slight cant so that the bird would fade to the side of it's flight path. This small lateral movement was enough to cause a miss to one side or the other, even though it wasn't obvious from the stand. If you moved to antother location, you could see it.

That's the kind of target I was trying to describe, but the particularly troublesome ones like this can be when it is not apparent from the stand. It is so subtle you miss to the side of the track.

With all these curling targets, there is not way to use a swing through approach. It has to be ambush. A swing through requires a swing across the flight to a point.

Bill, in my post I addressed Jeff's presentation.

Slow crossers can lull you into shooting deliberately which kills your swing. You can not measure and maintain lead on a crosser if it is at the same time going slightly in or out or dropping and slowing down as it goes. Your lead may look right but will be wrong by the time your shoot and your shot reaches where the target is. Think of it as a bird with three or four different leads, in, out, right/left, slowing down and dropping down all at the same time. The longer you wait the worse it is for me. Pick a window to eliminate the speed changes and dropping changes as much as you can. That only leaves you with two variables instead of four. Peice of cake.

I shoot a bit more aggressively with a shorter swing. And I never let a crossing target get past my barrels if possible. Sometimes, in heavy woods, targets just seem to only have a couple clear windows. I take the first window. I find a short, quicker swing, with a hold point near where I want to break the bird. Where trap layout can get tricky is a slightly canted target which gives you a visual presentation which mask its real flight path. On those who are moving away from me I tend to shoot in front and those who are moving slightly closer I tend to shoot behind.

On real problem targets I go back to basics and start with very short leads and increase then a foot at a time until I start hitting the birds. Few fellow shooters can tell you where you are but that won’t stop them from trying.

I have shot with Stan and can attest he knows what he is doing. The particular target I see is curling in slightly, but I think the problem is it is well out and going towards the ground. So it requires a compound lead, in front a lot and below, so you are almost shooting at the ground.

I shoot as you described on the vast majority of targets on a sporting course ........ decide where I want to kill it, mount, and back up just a little ways towards the trap. Lift my head ever so slightly from the gun and look back to the place where I can first see the bird after it leaves the trap. As the target gets close to my muzzles I begin a very controlled but short move that keeps my muzzles always ahead of the target. Then when it looks right, kill it. To many, this method looks like you're hardly moving the muzzles at all, but you are. Bill McGuire taught me this method and it has served me very well. I would definitely use it on the presentation you describe. Some of my competitive buddies call it a "controlled ambush". BTW, I never let a fast bird get ahead of my muzzles. If I had to name the style of lead I shoot on most stuff I'd call it pull away, but not started on the bird, rather started from a tiny bit ahead of it. When I kill the first bird in a true pair and make my move to the second one I intercept it's line ahead of it.

The best advice I could give anyone about shooting sporting would be to use the hands less, and the eyes more. Always let the eyes go to the bird before the hands. Where the eyes go the hands will follow. Another Bill McGuire truism.

In this thread, we have gotten instruction and hints on how to hit nine different presentations without addressing the OP's original question. I tried, but am a poor teacher on this particular presentation. My opinion, sustained lead, muzzle never behind the bird, hard pressure cheek to gun.

IMO a lot of shooters want to shoot that bird at a point where they envision it’s closest to the stand. ( where it’s terminating it’s flight). If I understand the presentation correctly the bird is not moving in much. I’d much rather shoot that bird at a bit longer distance (and predictable line) than waiting for it to lose speed and die. But as they say :“there’s more than one way to skin a cat”.
That’s part of the fun of shooting clays!!

Regards,
Ken