doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - 10ga SXS Waterfowl?

Who shoots a 10ga SXS for waterfowl?

What guns?

Do you load your own shells?

What shot weight do you put in 2 7/8" hulls? What powder?




Any steel barrel, PG, DT guns for sale out there?

Got a new to me Ithaca NID Grade 3, 2 7/8", 32" gun. This will be my first season with it. Have close to 100 reloaded plastic hulls on hand, loaded with 1 1/4 oz. bismuth 4s, at 1200 fps. I intend to work towards loading some with heavier charges of bismuth, and Nice shot, as time allows. These particular guns were designed to shoot a 1 5/8 oz. lead load, and I want to duplicate it with non-tox as nearly as possible. Probably will require using card wads instead of plastic shot cups. I don't think the SP10 wad will "allow" that much bismuth. Will experiment with the Versalite wads to see what they will handle.

Stan, that Ithaca is a beauty.

I'm down to six ten gauge shotguns from a high of eight.

Three are SXS's. My favorite is a Francotte grade 25 with 32 inch barrels and 2 7/8 chambers. Presently, I also have a W&C Scott and a Sarasqueta.

It's a pleasure to shoot with my light lead lead reloads, I even load Polywad spreaders for tower shoots for pheasant. I just wish RST would get back in production, because cut down hulls from 3.5 inch steel loads just don't always crimp the way I want them to. My RST hulls are on their 3rd reload and I'd like to buy another 100 or so to keep me in the game.

I have posted this before, but in looking at my 10 gauge files, this one popped up

Hello,

Just a story to warm my heart. Some years ago, I was acquired by a Grade II L. C. Smith in 10 gauge that was made at the old plant. I feel that she is one of the last hammerless made at the Syracuse plant. She has damascus steel barrels that are beautiful to look at. One day she and I were involved in a gentle warm discussion and she asked me if I would take her duck hunting. I tried to explain that the rules had changed and now steel shot was required and smokeless powder was the norm. She looked at me with that special way that only she can do and said "Please, please." Well, no way that I could say no to "Her Sweetness."

So what is a fella to do. I found 25 Alcan all brass shotshell hulls that take the 57 size primers. I made a sizing die to insure they might fit into her sleek chambers. She was really excited when I showed her the brass hulls. She said she remembered the days when brass and also paper hulls were very common. Wow, is she pretty when she smiles. Now, I found some 1F black powder, and some 10 gauge over shot wads. I also bought some MEC 10 gauge steel wads which I cut off to the correct length to fit into the alcan hulls. I talked it over with her and said I would only be using #3 steel pellets to insure she would not get swollen. She sure did appreciate that. So, I combined the hulls, primers, dipper load of 1F black, cutoff MEC wad, same dipper of #3 steel shot and topped it off with an over shot wad and Elmer's glue around the edge. I did insure the shot volume was a little smaller that the wad volume to insure all the shot stayed in the wad during the travel down the barrels. I showed the finished cartridges to her and wow, did she shine with joy. Well now we made a date to go to the duck blind. I was so proud to show her off to my buddies, I mean who would not brag if his special gal would get up and go so early in the morning. Well, here came the test, I caressed her and THEN here came the ducks and it an instant, she was up and spoke with authority and power. Smoke was everywhere, but when it cleared TWO green head mallards were feet up on the water. WHAT A JOY. She has told me things that she has kept in her heart for years. She and I have grown closer and closer. We often just gaze at each other and smile. She does wonder if any of her old girlfriends out there hunt any more. I did assure her that I would find out.

Enjoy the hunt,

Sold my 10 gauge Darne R-16. But I've kept a Lefever C 10 gauge thumb-push with 2-7/8" chambers. The gun has two barrels, but weighs 8 lbs or more no matter which set of barrels is attached. Bought a number of Federal primed 10 gauge 3-inch hulls and cut them down. Also use Longshot and load with either 1-1/4 oz of #2 Bismuth or Nice shot. Shoot geese across Chesapeake Bay near Chestertown, MD on the Atlantic flyway. No more ducks there anymore, unfortunately.

Best of the Season, Tim

I find LimaPapas observation most interesting as they mirror my findings at the pattern board almost Identically. I imported some Italian 10 ga O/U's which had .042" choke in each barrel. Base patterns were 64%. Steel No.2s. Starting with the lower bbl I opened them up in .003-.004" increments. A steady increase in density and improved evenness of distribution were noted until at .018" constriction Where it was printing an 84% pattern .Set the top barrel to this dimension and continued with the lower bbl until at .008" restriction i got a very good 60% pattern. I've subsequently used the .018 & .008 on a number of guns , both 10 & 12 ga with very good results. I did balance the chokes to give cone length to choke parallel lengths with a ratio of 1:1.3 to accommodate the longer shot column of steel vs lead , weight for weight.

For what its worth, when the lead shot ban came in the early 90's, I sold my Model 23 Winchester I used for ducks and geese and bought an Eibar made 10 ga for $300 brand new. 32" bbls, wt 9 1/2 lbs, chokes F&F. I also bought two boxes each of Federal 3 1/2 in. steel 1 5/8 oz loads in BB and T shot, then I went to see my local gunsmith George Orndorff who agreed to ream the chokes out 5 thousandths at a time, then I would test them at the pattern board. Took about 5 weeks, I wouid pick up the gun downtown on Friday, pattern over the weekend , then bring it back to him on Monday. Unreamed, the barrels printed a tight oblong pattern that was thin in the middle. Sort of like a figure 8 on a 30 degree axis from the vertical. Not acceptable. 5K cut, rounded out a bit. 10K, same. 15K little rounder, still very tight. 20K (leaving 22 points still in the barrel) gave me a perfectly round 40 inch pattern with 80% of the load of BB's inside 30 inches. I stopped there on the left barrel, and cut the right another 5, leaving 17 in. Perfect round pattern spread over 48 inches with 65% in the 30 inch circle. Stopped there. T's patterned 10% tighter, but with way fewer pellets. I shot greater and lesser Canada's for 10 years with that gun, using only steel BB's. The longest goose I shot was probably 60 yards dead overhead, looking for its mate. The BB's worked. Never had to go to the T's, which still sit in my gunroom. The right barrel was also deadly at 30 yards when they cupped up. Then, I got into vintage doubles and the old Eibar 10 has sat unused for almost 20 years. I now shoot Bismuth 2's out of a Parker lifter with open chokes, which is deadly on cupped birds, and just got a Parker top lever with 32 inch barrels and original full chokes. That gun patterns 130/150 RST No. 2 Nice shot 1 1/4 oz nominal, all within a 36 in circle. I bought 30 of the Nice shot about 10 years ago (at about $3 per shell) and they no longer offer it. My bad. Still, if I wasn't enjoying shooting the hammer guns so much, I would pull out the Eibar to kill geese.

The nice thing about many tens is that they often got little use and remain in nice shape. My grandfathers Remington short 10, BE is a high condition gun with about 90% of finish remaining. My half brother has owned it for the last 60 years and it has not fired a single shell since he stole it out from under me. Darn brothers think they ought to get what should go to the youngest and best looking grandson.

I just worked out a trade for it’s proper return to me. Traded a Farmall tractor, owned by my grandfather, for the double. With luck, I’ll be able to take it out next year for late season ducks. I think that will be the first time it will be shot since I shot it two times in 1966. Before that it had not been shot since my grandfather bought his A-5 in 1946. As close as I can figure, it has had those nine shells I shot through it in 77 years. As I say low use for any gun. I used Blue Dot powder in Federal hulls cutdown to size with roll crimp. Somewhere I’ve got a box of Alcan or Magtech brass shells I picked at a gun show. If I can find them they would make some great black powder loads, not that the Remington needs black powder, but fun is where you find it these days and shooting black powder hunting is a hoot.

She, Valerie that is, is in high original condition, Gil. Wood and metal finishes original, IMO. I believe that she has never been fired much at all.

These old short tens are the ones that currently handle the bulk of my waterfowl hunting


[img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ww315/thatvoodoothatyoudo/IMG_2741.HEIC[/img][/URL][/img]


[img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/ima...udo/IMG_2742_4LFJbF6jULohjvY6tDNb6x.WEBP[/img]

Stan, nicely engraved with what appears to be good condition. Gil

Samuel Smallwood Damascus hammer gun. 1.25 oz. bismuth over 32 gr. Longshot in Federal plastic hulls or 3.5 drams 1F in RMC brass shells. Like Skeettx, for clays I shoot 12 ga. in silver Gaugemates or Little Skeeters.

stan, all bs aside...pls dont shoot steel in this fine old nid...you will score the barrels for sure...

Stan, why would you not use plastic wads?

Gotta use the 10 gauge MEC steel shot wad and #3 steel soft shot

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Steel-Shot-3-bag_10/productinfo/SH03/

Mod/Full is what I use, would rather have IC/Mod or IC/IC

I use the old MEC wads (no longer sold by MEC)

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/10-gauge-wads/products/84/

Mike

Skeettx,

Enjoyed your post, appreciated the care that you took but if she was that pretty shouldn’t you have spoilt her with some Bismuth?

ROMAC,
That is a stunning gun, as is Stan's Valerie! The condition on both seem beautiful.
Karl

I have 2 Ithica's. A 1930's mag 3.5 in. 32 in. barrels with handloaded 1 7/8 bismuth 2's and buffer. Chokes f/f. The other is a 1881 damascus Crass 30" that started out life as a live pigeon gun (about 8 lbs.) now using handloaded 2 7/8 inch with 1.5 oz bismuth 4's. Original chokes light. mod/full.

ROMAC that's a beautiful Francotte. Do you know the weight? I have a true love of Francotte shotguns.

Stan that NID is top notch.

I hear recent studies in the UK have raised concerns about the use of the recently introduced 2 1/2”/65 mm steel loads in 2 3/4” (and presumably 3”) chambered guns.

The fear is that in the gap between the case mouth and the forcing cone steel pellets can escape the protective wad and score the cone.

This adds to my determination that if I ever have to use steel, it will only be in guns that have cost me less than a 25 cartridge box of Bismuth.

I will Stan. First I have to get a puppy ready to send home with my son. He wanted a black lab male and my female has produced what looks to be a fine little fellow. He is six weeks old and getting into anything that he can. Working on basic sit, come, lead commands. He is nearly house trained. If he has his moms drive, he ought to be a lot of fun. Nothing is more fun than watching a puppy figure things out and seeing them click for him. He goes to his forever home right after Christmas.

From memory, it is just under 8 pounds.

I'll have to pull it out and weigh it this weekend.

We finally agree on something.

Merry CHRISTmas, ed.

Stanton, the ratio was an accommodation to the difference in density of steel and lead. I believe the balance of choke to parallel was as a result of research done by W.W.Greener. Having said that the only Greener "Far Killer"i worked on had long taper chokes with no parallel at all. Similarly an original Stephen Grant I worked on had only taper chokes and threw very dense patterns. Regarding Eightbores observations I can only attribute his good fortune to just another of the vagaries of choke. As they say your mileage may vary.

[quoteQuote
ROMAC that's a beautiful Francotte. Do you know the weight? I have a true love of Francotte shotguns.

From memory, it is just under 8 pounds.

I'll have to pull it out and weigh it this weekend.
][/quote]

I just had the chance to weigh it.

7 pounds, 11.4 ounces.

At least, I left my favorite state of Utah in 2008.