doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - Sad day to hear this news

Had a call this morning from my close shooting buddy. This guy was responsible for fueling my addiction in English guns. But I could tell he was distraught very fast into the conversation. Started by saying he had just left Fed Ex shipping his nice Boss to a dealer up north. And plans on shipping his Purdey pigeon gun tomorrow as well.
All his other English guns are going as well. Mostly Grants.
His frustration stems from multiple things and last week something happened that broke the camel's back so to speak. Seems he is fed up with repair costs, wait times on repairs (I'm talking months), no 2 1/2" shells nowhere to be found.
But the straw last week was he just got one gun back after months wait at this well know dealer / repair shop and paid almost $1400 for one repair only to find they had scratched the blueing off one of the barrels.
I suppose I should have seen it coming. I mean it's true about everything he was saying. It's expensive for repairs and the long wait. I want a leather pad installed and had to get on a wait list three months ago and still have a month to wait before I just take it there. No telling how long it will be before I see it again.
No ammo and if you find any the cost is more than I can stand, but I pay it anyway.
So for me to hear this guy say all this it just comes back to me everything I have been seeing and hearing for the last two years.

Many of the most quality guns made were made between 1900 -1935 which mean short chambers. Now you can buy modern best guns with 70mm chambers but odds are they will cost several thousands more. Much easier for me to buy a fine German bird gun with 2.5” chambers for say 3k vs a Piotti BSEE 70mm chambered equivalent for 15k. Not much difference in quality between the 2, Hence reloading room with 2.5in 12 and 16ga press and lots of supply’s. Often thought of selling 5 to buy the one but 5 is more fun!

Well, the big thing I was into before vintage SxS was sailing keel boats. So your analogy rings absolutely true. LOL

I've spent my fair share of time waiting on gunsmiths. I learned early to stockpile the shells I like to use when I could, because you can never find them when you need them. And I accept the inconvenience of the whole endeavor. If I wanted easy, I'd shoot a modern 20 gauge auto. Easy isn't why I do this. I wave guys off this route if they want easy. I like it the way it is, headaches and all.

Remember, Parker cut chambers 2 5/8” but recommended shooting 2 3/4” ammunition. They wanted the hulls to open part way into the forcing cone, feeling that provided a better gas seal. Other American makers did the same. Me? All my ancient doubles, some 150+ years old, fire the long hulls with zero Ill effects. As long as the mouth of the fired hull is smooth and not frayed I feel the long hull is perfectly acceptable. Tens of thousands of rounds in American and English guns with zero problems. And as far as I can learn pressures only increase a minimal amount, well within acceptable limits. To each his own……much about nothing.

+1

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I wonder if this is sort of private club, top rail drink talk. After a little venting, it's time to settle on dates for the estate .410 shoot.

" Browning designed pumps built by Stevens and Savage," in Europe these are exotic items. For some of us their art Deco streamlined shapes rival the appeal of classic best. And gunsmithing on them is simple and cheap.

Personally I rate the Stevens 620 as a classic, maybe because I can't get one anywhere in Europe.

Back in the late 80's to early 90's I was sailing a mid 30+ foot Hunter sailboat in the Chesapeake Bay for a break from school. That was an expensive hobby even done on the cheap. I do not care for easy. I like old, unique, odd and obsolete. I have taken dove and wood ducks with a 20 bore muzzle loader percussion double, built or converted from flintlock in 1825. I broke 80 on a sporting clay's course, with a WR crab joint 12 bore hammer gun, beating a friend using his O/U K 80. He was not happy. Shoot better I told him. I have been shooting a central vision 12 and crossover 12's just for th fun of it. I shoot 42's on dove with short shells. I am going to take a Ithaca 20 bore Flues with 30" barrels dove shooting next rip. It has 2 1/2" chambers and is choked F and F which I hope is a great long range gun for late season dove. I am going to find out. All my guns are bought with the intention to shoot them, even the nice ones.

I have one or more example of almost all American made pump guns that I am shooting skeet and trap with just so they get some use. They range from Bannerman Spencer, to Winchester 97, 12, 42, Remington 10, 17, 29, 31, three Toldeo Arms models, Browning designed pumps built by Stevens and Savage, Ithaca 37's, Marlin 28, 31, 42, 43 and 44, High Standard/ JC Higigns model 20, Weatherby Patrician, Mossberg 500/835 and a few even odder oddballs, that time has forgotten. Pump guns are American gun type for the most part and they have fallen out of favor with many. But they are just fun to use and not very expensive to collect for the most part.

You are right that loading our own shells makes things ever so much easier. I am still working through 30,000 Federal Paper hulls I got from the Olympic shooting training facility over 20 years ago. Nothing is as classic to me as a paper hull, loaded with Red Dot powder, shot on a cool morning. They trim down nicely to 2" or 2 1/2" and look great rolled crimped. It has taken me decades to figure out what are safe and effective load for classic guns and now being able to load them makes a ton of difference. I now have over five thousand 2 1/2" 20 gauge shells loaded up for future use and about the same in 12 gauge. All safe to use in my short chambered, classic guns, without worry about pressure or being too long. It is so much easier to just grab boxes already loaded rather than trying to locate safe factory shells when I want to go shooting.

I’ve cut back on clay shooting but lack of ammo is just part of that equation. Shooting real game is where it’s at and you really don’t need that many shells for it. We are also doing more deer hunting and fishing.

If we want more good doublegun gunsmiths, we need to support the American Custom Gunmakers Guild. An associate membership is $65 for calendar year if I remember correctly. The ACGG is actively trying to pass on gunsmithing skills to the new generation of gunsmiths interested.