January
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Who's Online Now
9 members (bsteele, DaveB, KY Jon, dogon, AZMike, 1 invisible), 97 guests, and 10 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics37,213
Posts526,145
Members14,245
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Thread Like Summary
LeFusil, Ted Schefelbein
Total Likes: 8
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#612684 03/19/2022 8:28 PM
by LeFusil
LeFusil
What was the standard or “usual” factory constriction for a modified choked Winchester 16 gauge? Guns in question are are two Model 12’s, one from 1926, the other one 1936 and one model 1897 circa 1914. All three guns seem to be original and un-altered, all three a marked as “Mod” on the barrels.

All three guns are measuring chokes that are what would normally be considered to be in the IC/Skeet 1 range. Two model 12’s are .008 and the 1897 is .009.
Bore diameters are almost identical…..668 on the 1897, .669 on the 1936, .668 on the 1926.
Liked Replies
#612698 Mar 20th a 12:12 AM
by Stanton Hillis
Stanton Hillis
According to all I've learned and seen over the years I would not expect .008" and .009" constrictions to throw modified patterns out of a 16 gauge, Dustin. In a 16 gauge I consider modified constrictions to be in the .013" to .018" range. In a 16, .008" to .009" would usually be considered IC.
1 member likes this
#612697 Mar 19th a 11:52 PM
by Brittany Man
Brittany Man
Schwing's Model 21 book lists 16 ga. Model 21 modified choke constriction as .010" to .015".

Note that he lists variance in bore diameter of (.005") for all gauges & choke constriction variance of (.002 to .010") depending on gauge & choke.

My assumption is that choke constriction changed with improvements in shotshells.
1 member likes this
#612694 Mar 19th a 11:09 PM
by Researcher
Researcher
The only modified choke 16-gauge Winchester I have is a NIB very late Model 12 Standard Grade and the choke measures .020". Your chokes are closer to my 1953 Model 12 16-gauge that is marked imp. cyl.
1 member likes this
#612692 Mar 19th a 09:48 PM
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
This is all I have, and things may certainly have changed between 1914 and the publication of Jack O'Connor's The Shotgun Book in 1965
16 gauge bore and choke
……..…..……Browning……….Remington…….Winchester
Bore………...…0.665”…………..0.673”…………..0.664”
Full Choke…..0.037”…………..0.033”…………..0.031”
Modified….….0.025”…………..0.017”…………..0.016”
Imp. Cyl..…..0.016”…………..0.008”……..……0.007”

Certainly the British standard for "Half-choke" would be 1/2 of the Full constriction
1 member likes this
#612706 Mar 20th a 02:37 PM
by Bluestem
Bluestem
If you can stomach it, pattern some of those vintage 16-gauge shells I gave you and compare their patterns to moderns shells as KY Jon noted. Modern plastic wads and progressive powders were game changers.
1 member likes this
#612708 Mar 20th a 02:50 PM
by GSPWillie
GSPWillie
I have a 1940's model 12 16 gauge with 0.667 bore and 0.008 choke marked MOD. I believe the choke is factory unaltered. I agree that that seems light for a MOD choke but have had several others tell me it was normal from Winchester? I have never had enough confidence in it (based on some 16 yard trap shooting) to use it as my late season long range pheasant gun. I need to pattern it on paper. Just yesterday I passed on a model 12 16 gauge solid rib marked Imp.Mod. (really looking for same in full). I didn't have bore gauge to measure the constriction but close inspection showed that the choke had been probably opened up. I did score 3 boxes of Win Super X paper shells 2-16 gauge 2 9/16" roll crimped and 1 - 12 gauge 2 3/4" for all $40! Happy to get them.
1 member likes this
#612707 Mar 20th a 02:42 PM
by Bluestem
Bluestem
And then there is this: https://shotgunreport.com/2016/11/28/altitude-effect/

Are you patterning on one of your chukar mountains?
1 member likes this
#612738 Mar 21st a 08:28 PM
by Lloyd3
Lloyd3
Dustin:

In the FWIW column here, having just cut 1 1/2 inch of barrel off of a circa 1927 M12 16 bore, it patterns quite nicely at 9 points of choke (which I'd have thought was slightly-tight IC) . During the process of getting to the end of the crack we were eliminating, it seemed like there was at least 3-inches of constriction going on in it's tube. Not sure what that means, except that I'm even-more impressed with the build quality of these older Winchesters. As far as a comparison, was also shooing my English 16 as well that day and it's right tube is choked IC (7-8 thousand) and the patterns (which were side by side) were comparable. Looking forward to using it on something other than a grease board soon, maybe the local pet & shoot?
1 member likes this

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2022 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 1.761s Queries: 17 (1.748s) Memory: 0.7597 MB (Peak: 1.4340 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2023-01-29 14:50:08 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS