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Aug 5th, 2016
Thread Like Summary
Brittany Man, craigd, Dave Weber, Hoot4570, John Roberts, journeymen, Parabola, Stanton Hillis, Ted Schefelbein, Tom Findrick
Total Likes: 25
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by buckstix
buckstix
A Special Custom Double Rifle to Hunt Rare Dangerous Game in Wisconsin

Hello All,

I've brought this over to share with the readers here.

I expect most of you have probably never seen these rare Dangerous Animals before. Well, they have infiltrated the suburbs here in Wisconsin. It is believed they mutated by drinking the discharge water from one of our Nuclear Power Plants. Subsequent in-breeding has further altered their ravenous behavior to the point that unprovoked attacks on animals and people have become an all to often serious occurrence.

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Here are a few pictures of various mutations of the vicious WISCONSIN KILLER RABBIT.

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[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

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So, I have taken it upon myself to help combat these satanic creatures.

As you know, a Double Rifle is designed for that quick second shot in case the dangerous animal charges. Such is the case here. If the first shot fails to stop a charge, the second shot is quick to finish the job. Although I have a battery of double rifles to choose from, ranging in calibers from 7x65R, up-to 700 NE, none of them really fit the bill for the task at hand, namely hunting these Dangerous Animals.

I needed a very special Double Rifle. It had to be in a caliber that was quiet for use in populated suburban areas, and it had to be fast-handling for the quick and nimble game to be hunted. It also had to be light weight to carry - in case a rapid run-away departure was required to retreat from a charging pack of the killers.

So .... I contacted Aaron Little, a Bespoke Rifle Master Gunsmith, and asked him to build me a Special Double Rifle of my design. Aaron has built 2 previous Double Rifles for me. A 600NE and a 700NE. Now I asked for a Double Rifle at the other end of the caliber scale. This rifle would be used exclusively to Hunt-Down and Kill the Mutated WISCONSIN KILLER RABBITS.

As he had done for me in the past, Aaron came through with a wonderful rifle, specifically designed for the upcoming hunt of these Vicious Devils. As expected, the workmanship is absolutely Flaw-Less.

Here are the rifle's specifications:

Make: A.M. Little Bespoke Custom Armsco Box-Lock
Caliber: 25 acp
Action: Engraved Scalloped Boxlock w/ Extractors
Barrels: Monoblock 23-1/2" Lothar Walther
Rear Sight: 2 Leaf Express Rear Sight - 1 Standing, 1 Folding on Raised Quarter Rib
Front Sight: Raised Ramp with Gold Bead and Flip-up Ivory Night Sight
Stock: Checkered Straight Grip AA Fancy Turkish Walnut w/ checkered Butt Plate
Forend: Checkered AA Fancy Turkish Walnut w/ Deeley Release
LOP: 14-5/8"
Weight: 6 pounds 11 ounces - 6 pounds 11.4 ounce loaded
Safety: Non-Automatic

Muzzle Energy: 90 ft/lbs
Recoil Energy: 1/10 ft/lbs

Regulation: 30 yards

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Here are some pictures.

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

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Liked Replies
by buckstix
buckstix
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Hello and thank you to all for the reply.

Originally Posted by John Roberts
Originally Posted by KY Jon
I thought you passed on the 25-20 because you knew a bottle necked, rimmed cartridge, are hideously hard to load...
Hello John Roberts,

And all these years I thought a rimmed cartridge instead of a rimless one was far more functional in a break-open rifle. What a dummy!

Nice toy, but you really did error in not chambering it in .25-20. Superb work by Michael, regardless.
JR

No error, I've seen severl 25-20 Double Rifles over the years, and I didn't want to repeat that chambering. I wanted a DR that was truly a one-of-a-kind. The 25acp is NOT rimless - it is semi-rimmed and works great.

Originally Posted by Brittany Man
Happy to see that you spent the extra $$ for the flip up moon sight. That will really help when spotlighting critters. Every Dangerous Game double rifle should be so equipped.
Hello Brittany Man,

Yes, the moon sight was required in case you had to follow a wonded creature into dark cover.

Originally Posted by Parabola
Hoot,

One exception, the British .297/.250 Rook also uses .250 or .251 diameter bullets . I believe Holland and Holland built at Least one Royal SLE double in that calibre.

They made a number of double rifles in .295 Rook, including the one in the last Holts which unfortunately King Umberto of Italy did not have to hand when his assassin came calling.
Hello Parabola,

I have several Martini rifles in .297/.250 Rook caliber, and I reload that cartridge. That cartridge is much bigger than the 25acp. I wanted a "very small" centerfire cartridge that no one has ever used before.


Originally Posted by craigd
Originally Posted by Hoot4570
....I am curious though, where did you source the correct tubes? The ACP is a true quarter-bore at .250"....
Purely a guess. The picture of the breech has the appearance as though the barrels have been lined. If so, that may be a T.J.'s liner?
Hello craigd,
Hello Hoot4570,

As listed in the specifications, the barrels are Lothar Walther. The barrels have NOT been lined. The barrel blanks weighed 5 pounds, 3 ounces, each when received. They were turned down and mon-blocked into the action.

Finished weight of the rifle is 6 pounds, 11 ounces.
3 members like this
by gunmaker
gunmaker
Originally Posted by Tom Findrick
Originally Posted by buckstix
Originally Posted by Tom Findrick
Does one barrel shoot more reliably to point of aim and group better than the other?
Have you shot groups for each barrel independent of the other?
How are the trigger pull weights?
Hello Tom Findrick,
Thanks for the reply.

Trigger pulls are both consistent and predictable at about 3 pounds. I have not tested the barrels independently for groups. I'm satisfied that the composite groups are acceptable for hunting. I'm continuing to test further to improve the groups and will post updates here.
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Thanks
One more question;
If the barrels are regulated to converge at 30 yards, I assume the bullets then start to diverge past that.
What happens to the POI past the 30 yards, and how would you compensate for the longer distance ( kind of why I asked about testing each barrel individually)?

It’s really a non-issue concerning double rifles and the distances at which they are effective. In the case of this rifle it(approx/averages) putting a shot out of each barrel about 1/2” on either side of the POA of their given side. This is effectively the distance of the spread at the breach, sometime called shooting “
Parallel”.

If same gun was to converge at 50yds, that means each barrels POI came in 1/2” to meet at the POA. Beyond 50yds it would cross, theoretically at 100yds it would cross 1/2” to the other side of the POA, or in other words the left barrel would hit 1/2” right of the POA. There are many compounding variables that complicate that though.

I’ve shot and regulated over 125 iron sighted double rifles…takes a hell of a shooter to be able to worry about such things.

A parallel shooting double would theoretically never spread or converge, but once again look at the tool and it’s use. Not to mention the ability of a shooter to be able to meet that level of performance.

Further, when regulating a double you don’t go by one shot out of each barrel. Best to shoot three shots per barrel, take the average of those three shots, and make your regulation adjustment based off the average.
3 members like this
by Parabola
Parabola
I take it that you chose .25ACP rather than .25-20 so you could use a vest pocket .25 Colt as your back up gun if you didn’t stop a charge?
2 members like this
by buckstix
buckstix
Hello All,

Today I tested some Cast Lead bullets. I think I've found my hunting load.

With a muzzle velocity averaging 1160 fps, it developes 150 ft/lbs muzzle energy with over 110 ft'lbs remaining at 65 yards. (about max distance for a clean head shot given the accuracy)

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]
2 members like this
by Brittany Man
Brittany Man
[quote

Today the Law states any centerfire 22 cal or larger. Back in 1988 when I used the .14 caliber, the Law was "any" centerfire. (see my article in the 1988 Guns Illustrated - "14 Fever") But, after so may 17 caliber centerfires came on the market, the Law was changed to 22 caliber or larger.[/quote]

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is the smart or correct thing to do. Remember, some states still allow first cousins to marry!

I personally would not use a.220 Swift, .22-250 ,.223,.222 R or even a.22 Hornet for deer but I wouldn't question someone else for doing so. I'm old enough to remember people butchering hogs & beef at home. The caliber of choice was normally a .22 short to the head @ close range (not my choice on the .22 short). Usually it worked well but I remember a few times when it didn't. Trust me when I say it was a bad deal for all parties involved when it didn't.

Using a .25 ACP is a nothing more than a stunt & not fair to the animal if something goes wrong. For the sake of the animal I hope you are extremely lucky & also a good tracker!

Nice execution on your double rifle by your gun builder. Too bad you didn't chamber it for something useful. You mention you selected the .25 ACP chambering because it is a "first" for double rifles. Did it occur to you that there is a reason for that?
2 members like this
by Brittany Man
Brittany Man
For those of you who are swooning over this abortion of a double rife (no insult intended to the builder) consider this.

As per the somewhere above post from the owner re. his developed "hunting" load. for the .25 ACP double rifle:

MV 1160 / ME 150 ft/lbs . Bullet weight is not stated but if you back calculate it is a 50 gr bullet & he states it is a lead bullet. That is a bullet w/ a sectional density of .113

My .22 LR small game load of choice is the WW 40 grain Power Point. I like it because the lot #s of the stuff I have shoot small groups (You can find .22 LR loads with a MV & ME that exceed both this & the .25 ACP load significantly) & it kills small game well.

Published data for the WW.22LR 40 gr PP load is:

MV 1280 / ME 146 f/lbs. & the bullet has a sectional density of .115 (higher SD means the bullet penetrates better)

The .25 ACP is at best equal to a 40 gr .22 LR. Both will kill deer under ideal conditions but that is not the point.

Unless I'm starving & have nothing better available I won't be using either for my deer hunting.
2 members like this
by buckstix
buckstix
...... continued from previous page

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Regulation was tested with 3 kinds of Factory Ammo. Future hand-loads are sure to improve performance.

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

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...... continued on next page
1 member likes this
by buckstix
buckstix
..... continued from previous page

The 25acp is a semi-rimmed cartridge. You can see the rim recess in the chambers in photo 14 & 15.
Even with this very small rim, the spent carridges extract flawlessly.

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

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Never before has the World seen a center-fire Double Rifle in such a diminutive caliber as the 25acp. As a side note, this is a true ONE-OF-KIND. Once all the WISCONSIN KILLER RABBITS have been eradicated, I'm sure to have a lot of fun shooting this one along side my 700NE. Its great to have the BIGGEST and the SMALLEST Double Rifle in my collection. I now have a Double Rifle in a really big center-fire caliber, and one in a really small center-fire caliber. So, now I'm ready for anything on the planet, from Elephant, tot Tit-Mouse.

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

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Comparing the ballistics of these two extreme double rifles shows following:

Rifle Weight:
700NE = 18 lbs 10 oz
25acp = 6 lbs 11 oz

Bullet Weight:
700NE = 1000 gr
25acp = 50 gr

Bullet Velocity:
700NE = 2000 ft/sec
25acp = 890 ft/sec

Muzzle Energy:
700NE = 8,900 ft/lbs
25acp = 90 ft/lbs

Recoil Energy:
700NE = 150 ft/lb
25acp = 1/10 ft/lb

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By the Way ...... The rifle performed flawlessly .. blush

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

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......... end
1 member likes this
by ChiefAmungum
ChiefAmungum
Very nice! I was expecting "The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch"!?
1 member likes this
by Parabola
Parabola
Hoot,

One exception, the British .297/.250 Rook also uses .250 or .251 diameter bullets . I believe Holland and Holland built at Least one Royal SLE double in that calibre.

They made a number of double rifles in .295 Rook, including the one in the last Holts which unfortunately King Umberto of Italy did not have to hand when his assassin came calling.
1 member likes this
by John Roberts
John Roberts
Originally Posted by buckstix
I also intend to take a whitetail deer with it next fall, albeit at very close range.
Please don't try that stunt, buckstix. All you will do is wound the poor animal, to let it go off and suffer a slow death. The very idea is abhorrent.
JR
1 member likes this
by Stanton Hillis
Stanton Hillis
Glad they came to their "senses".

Thanks for the reference to your article but, I won't bother with looking it up as I have zero interest in that.
1 member likes this
by John Roberts
John Roberts
Originally Posted by Der Ami
The skill to build such a rifle is evidence of the skill to use it effectively.
Mike

The builder isn't the user, Mike. If you meant to say "the desire to build such a rifle is evidence of the skill to use it effectively" guarantees nothing.
JR
1 member likes this
by buckstix
buckstix
Originally Posted by Tom Findrick
Thanks
One more question;
If the barrels are regulated to converge at 30 yards, I assume the bullets then start to diverge past that.
What happens to the POI past the 30 yards, and how would you compensate for the longer distance ( kind of why I asked about testing each barrel individually)?
Hello Tom Findrick,
Thanks for the reply.

gunmaker answered your question precisely. Saved me having to explain "parallel" groups - muzzle distance apart - forever. Only a a very few of my 29 Double Rifles actually shot parallel.
1 member likes this
by buckstix
buckstix
Hello all,
Thanks for the reply.

I don't want to start a big debate on my plan to harvest a whitetail deer with this diminutive double rifle next Fall. I've been fortunate to have harvested 52 Bucks and 252 does over the last 55 years of hunting. I've taken them with small calibers like .14 caliber, and 5mm cf, .... all the way up to 505 Gibbs, and 700 NE caliber. Distances were from as close as 10 feet, to as far out to 600 yards. I'll be reporting the results here next November.

btw ... I've never shot a deer that I didn't kill with the first shot.
1 member likes this

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