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Aug 5th, 2016
Thread Like Summary
Brittany Man, ClapperZapper, keith, Stanton Hillis
Total Likes: 5
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by Brian
Brian
Dickisnon Amrs 20/28 SxS special order shotgun. Excess headpsace in one barrel. the following is the narrative with supporting emails showing the poor cusomter service of Dickinson and their even worse "gunsmith repair". Dickinson was given ample iopportunity to make this right. They did not. The photo at the end speaks ofr itself.

I would never guy a Dickinson and would disocurage anyone form ever buying one based on the terrible cusormer support and shade tree mechanoc re[airs they say are safe and acceptable.
BUYERS BEWARE.

Background: My friend ordered and received his shotgun in 2017 through me.
He received the gun and the 20 Ga barrels worked without problem. The 28 Ga barrels had frequent misfires. He examined the dud rounds and observed light strikes on the primers.
He contacted Dickinson and was instructed by the company to return the gun for examination and possible repair. He shipped the shotgun back to Dickinson. Dickinson told him they would reimburse him for shipping. They did not,

Dickinson repaired it and sent it back. The initial repair resolved the misfire issue but caused the ejector not to work after firing 3 or 4 rounds.
My customer sent it back again. The second repair just increased the number of rounds that could be fired to between 25 and 50 before the ejector stopped working again.
Each time the gun was sent to the company he was told that he would be reimbursed for shipping since the gun was under warranty.

I was able to inspect the gun after he continued to experience issues after the company had the opportunity to resolve the functioning issues twice.
Upon examination, on the 28 Ga. Barrels, the right ejector blade was approximately .020” below the rear of the barrel breech face. And the corresponding rim cut was at least .020” deeper than the other chamber rim recess which created a headspace issue for the right barrel. The shell rested too far down in the chamber for the firing pin to reliably contact the primer and fire the shell.
The “Gunsmith” who they had repair the misfire problem had added a small glob of TIG weld to the back side of the ejector blade to raise the ejector blade up to hold the cartridge against the breech face/firing pin to theoretically correct the problem.

My friend had sent me photos of the ejector blade when he got it back and I told him that the ejector blade is never used to regulate headspace and that is exactly what the person who did that repair attempted to do. I told him it was not correct and that no experienced double gun gunsmith would do something like that. I further explained to him that the rim cuts in the back of the barrels are what regulates headspace and not the ejector blades. But that is what the person who repaired the gun attempted to pass off .

On July 8, 2021, Dickinson even admits “ The return invoice from Pisco states "right ejector has been fitted to tighten headspace. Repaired and test fired...alot." They state they worked the ejector to correct headspace. As you can see from the email traffic, Dickinson did not conduct themselves in a positive business manner. Their repair of the gun was well below sub standard. And their unwillingness to correct a glaring issue is plainly evident.

Dickinson’s website states the following: “At Dickinson Arms, we are building our reputation one shotgun and one customer at a time. When you buy a Dickinson shotgun, you become part of our family — and we pledge to support you with the finest products and the best U.S.-based customer support in the industry.” Based on the repair my customer received, I think they are grossly exaggerating their commitment to quality.

Dickinson never responded back after he complained the third time. They never got back to him as they said they would once they heard from their factory.
For those of you who say I am only presenting one side of the story, read Dickinson’s replies and responses to the issue. In their emails they acknowledge the headspace issue and their remedy is to add a gob of weld on the backside of an ejector blade to correct it. Find me a double gun gunsmith who would say that is an acceptable method to correct the issue.

Here is the email traffic , hopefully in chronological order.

-----Original Message-----
From: WordPress <wordpress@dickinsonarms.com>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:12 AM
To: Dickinson Info <info@dickinsonarms.com>
Subject: Message from Dickinson
You received a message from Dickinson <https://dickinsonarms.com>
COL Mark Warnecke
troutbrook84@gmail.com
Message:
I have a Dickinson Estate 20/28 gauge (SN TRP0370) that I purchased new with select walnut from Dickinson USA. I had a misfire issue in 2018 with the 28 gauge barrels and returned the gun for repairs. This issue was resolved, though I was never reimbursed for shipping as promised. I have only fired a few shots through the 28 gauge barrels since, until the other day, when I fired 50 rounds. Almost immediately the right barrel would not eject. I took the gun apart at home, and remove the ejectors for inspection. First thing I noticed was the large amount of powder residue around the action/breech/ ejectors. Upon removal of the right barrel ejector I immediately notice a defect in that there was a protrusion of metal on the face of the ejector towards the chamber. This does not allow the ejector to sit flush against the rear of the chamber/barrel. In fact there is a gap of .020 inches. I believe the simple resolution if for you to send me a new right barrel ejector 28 gauge for my estate. I can provide pictures of the manufacture defect on the ejector if you would like. I look forward to a speedy resolution, thank you.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 2:01 PM Kristian Valenzuela <kristian@dickinsonarms.com> wrote:
Hello Mark,
I cant do anything about the reimbursement, but I’ll help you out and we will cover shipping to our warranty service center this time only for you. FYI All repairs need to be handled by our gunsmith to preserve the warranty.
Please forward me your information below and I will forward you a UPS shipping label to send your shotgun in for service. Make sure to include this information with the gun for our gunsmith to reference.
Name
Phone#
Shipping Address
Shotgun model and serial #
Package weight and dimensions
Description of Problem
Thank you,
Kristian Valenzuela
Warehouse Manager
Dickinson, LLC
www.dickinsonarms.com e: kristian@dickinsonarms.com

From: Mark Warnecke <troutbrook84@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 4:09 AM
To: Kristian Valenzuela <kristian@dickinsonarms.com>
Subject: Re: 20/28ga Issue

Kristian,
Here is the information you requested for repair and shipping UPS shipping label.
Name: COL (R) Mark Warnecke
Phone: 845-417-1993
Shipping Address: 31 Nurses Road, Olmstedville, NY 12857
Model: Dickinson Estate 20/28 Gauge with upgraded wood, SN TRP0370
Package: 36inX11inX4in. Weight 9 Lbs 12 oz.
Description of problem: I have a Dickinson Estate 20/28 gauge (SN TRP0370) that I purchased new with select walnut from Dickinson USA. I had a misfire issue in 2018 with the 28 gauge barrels and returned the gun for repairs. This issue was resolved, though I was never reimbursed for shipping as promised. I have only fired a few shots through the 28 gauge barrels since, until the other day, when I fired 50 rounds. Almost immediately the right barrel would not eject. I took the gun apart at home, and removed the ejectors for inspection. First thing I noticed was the large amount of powder residue around the action/breech/ ejectors. Upon removal of the right barrel ejector I immediately notice a defect in that there was a protrusion of metal on the face of the ejector towards the chamber. This does not allow the ejector to sit flush against the rear of the chamber/barrel in the rim recess. In fact there is a gap of .020 inches. I believe after consultation with my gunsmith that the right ejector needs to be replaced and the rim recess checked to insure that it is to specifications and not cut to deep . I can provide pictures of the defect on the ejector if you would like. I look forward to a speedy resolution, thank you.
Thank you.
COL (R) Mark Warnecke

From: Mark Warnecke <troutbrook84@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 2:52 PM
To: Kristian Valenzuela <kristian@dickinsonarms.com>; Brian Perazone <bpgunsmith@catskill.net>
Subject: Re: 20/28ga Issue
Kristian,
I received the gun back, but much to my disappointment, the right ejector has not been replaced as it should have been. It's the same ejector, 20 thousands thinner than the left ejector, with the original cobed repair of welding metal to it to increase thickness to "fix" the original miss fire issue (and I use the word fix loosely). I don't understand why, when I included pictures of the problem and a clear identification of the original unsatisfactory repair, the ejector was not replaced as it should have been. The original repair was done incorrectly and nothing is being done to rectify that. I want a new ejector. This gun should have never cleared the factory with that ejector in it. The first time it was sent in the ejector should have been replaced. The second time it was sent in the ejector should have been replaced.
The return invoice from Pisco states "right ejector has been fitted to tighten headspace. Repaired and test fired...alot." Again as you can see in the photo I sent you, the ejector should have been replaced. If the headspace was off, why was it returned from them the first time? As we all know, miss fire is a common symptom of incorrect headspace, and the photo shows how they "repaired" by gobbing a weld spot on to adjust headspace (again, repair is not correct, cobbed it would be more accurate). I would strongly suggest that you contract with a more competent gunsmithing company for your repairs.

I am including my gunsmith in this email. Please advise.
COL (R) Mark Warnecke

From: bpgunsmith@catskill.net <bpgunsmith@catskill.net>
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 5:06 PM
To: 'Mark Warnecke' <troutbrook84@gmail.com>; Kristian Valenzuela <kristian@dickinsonarms.com>
Subject: RE: 20/28ga Issue

As the dealer/gunsmith who sold this shotgun to Mark, I have to weigh in.
I have more than 42 years as a school trained gunsmith. I know my business. And I know how to not repair a shotgun with headspace issues. The “repair” that was done on that shotgun was absolutely the worst shade tree mechanic work I have seen on a double gun.
The gun clearly has excess headspace. The rim recess (which controls headspace) was cut too deep. That’s why your “mechanic built up the underside of the extractor in hopes that the ejector blade would hold the cartridge high enough for the firing pin to contact the primer with enough force to fire the cartridge. Ejectors and extractors are not designed to regulate headspace. NEVER!
The fact that your repairman built up the underside with a dab of weld is a clear indication that he recognized the problem was excess headspace.
The only way to fix that barrel correctly is to either cut the recess and insert a ring to create a new seat for the rim recess to be cut and recut the cartridge rim recess to the proper depth to headspace correctly and do all of the attendant polishing/rebluing to make it right or re-barrel the gun. I would imagine that it would be far more practical to send it back to have a new set of barrels fit and properly headspaced.
Short of that, this “repair” should be an embarrassment for a company that touts itself as selling high quality SxS shotguns for the discriminating bird hunter and shooter. I do not know of a single real gunsmith who would do that sort of “repair” to fix that issue.
To put it bluntly, you need to either rebarrel the gun with a new set of barrels or refund the customer his money. I am sure that the many double gun sites and shotgun sites that people discuss shotguns on would find it quite interesting to see the photos of the type of customer support they would receive from a company if they buy their product. I have had several inquiries from potential customers for Dickinson shotguns since Mark has had this issue. I have held them off form purchasing until I saw how this would be resolved. After two attempts at resolving this issue and the subsequent cobb job repairs made, I cannot at this time recommend or sell Dickinson shotguns. If this is not resolved to my customers full satisfaction, I will post photos of the cobb job repair and a detailed narrative of the issues plaguing this shotgun and let the shotgunners of the world decide for themselves what is right and wrong.

If you take issue with my observations and comments, I challenge you to show me a reputable shotgun gunsmith that would agree that your method of repair was an acceptable method.
Brian
B. PERAZONE GUNSMITH
07 FFL, CLASS 2 SOT

From: Aykut Bekmez <aykut@dickinsonarms.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2021 6:29 PM
To: bpgunsmith@catskill.net; troutbrook84@gmail.com
Subject: RE: 20/28ga Issue
Hello Brain and Mark,
We do not have over sized extractors. The repair made to the gun is safe and will function reliably.
However, I will still speak with gunsmith team at the factory and get back to you.
Ike
Manager
Dickinson, LLC
p: (805) 978 - 8565
f: (805) 978 - 8564
a: 5140 Commerce Ave. Unit A&B, Moorpark, CA 93021
w: www.dickinsonarms.com e: aykut@dickinsonarms.com

<troutbrook84@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2021 4:45 PM
To: Brian Perazone <bpgunsmith@catskill.net>
Cc: Aykut Bekmez <aykut@dickinsonarms.com>
Subject: Re: 20/28ga Issue
And the "repair" isn't working. Extractor is sticking again. Is this really what your company stands for?
On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 18:37 <bpgunsmith@catskill.net> wrote:
while that repair may be safe, it is not appropriate. That would be done an rusty an H&R single shot shotgun by some tractor mechanic. Not a on a fine double gun. None of your gunsmiths can say with a straight face that’s appropriate.
That would be the equivalent of peening the barrel lug to tighten the gun if it was off face.
Ejectors and extractors are not designed for nor were ever intended to regulate headspace.
That is an absolutely horrible repair and this does not reflect well on your products and customer service.
Brian
B. PERAZONE GUNSMITH
07 FFL, CLASS 2 SOT

<troutbrook84@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 1:19 PM
To: Aykut Bekmez <aykut@dickinsonarms.com>
Cc: Brian Perazone <bpgunsmith@catskill.net>
Subject: Re: 20/28ga Issue
Here is what you will do. You will check the rim recess for proper depth. If it is not proper depth you will replace the barrels. If it is the proper depth you will replace the right ejector which is too thin. Period. This is the third time I will be sending this gun back, and that is an indication of your company's unwillingness to listen to what the issue is and/or incompetent gunsmith for repair and/or an unwilling to properly repair in the first place. Are you going to tell me that putting a spot weld on the back of the ejector was the proper repair? I will await your reply. If you are unwilling to properly repair the gun as I and my gunsmith have stated, I will not waste my time sending it back for a third time. I will await your reply.
COL (R) Mark Warnecke
On Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 15:32 Aykut Bekmez <aykut@dickinsonarms.com> wrote:
Hello Mark,

Please provide me below information for shipping label. We will test your gun for extractor problem.
Name
Phone#
Shipping Address
Shotgun model and serial #
Package weight and dimensions

Ike

Ike Bekmez
Manager
Dickinson, LLC
p: (805) 978 - 8565
f: (805) 978 - 8564
a: 5140 Commerce Ave. Unit A&B, Moorpark, CA 93021
w: www.dickinsonarms.com e: aykut@dickinsonarms.com


On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 7:12 PM Aykut Bekmez <aykut@dickinsonarms.com> wrote:
Hello Mark,

We cant give you an answer until we diagnose the problem. I am just talking about this recent event. It is your decision to send it back or not. I have a gunsmith report that states the gun has been test fired with over 25 and it is working properly. You are claiming that the extractor is still sticking , this is our priority at the moment. If the extractor sticking situation continues, yes, we will diagnose why the issue persists. However, until we see the gun or receive a another report from a secondary gunsmith located here in California, I wont able to give you any answer at the moment.
For the rest of the problem which your previous emails state, until I hear back from the factory I wont able to get back to you with a straight answer. The Turkish factory is unfortunately on a National holiday at the moment, I am waiting to hear from them.
Best,
Ike Bekmez
Manager
Dickinson, LLC

<troutbrook84@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 4:36 PM
To: Aykut Bekmez <aykut@dickinsonarms.com>
Cc: bpgunsmith@catskill.net
Subject: Re: 20/28ga Issue
Your, as you call him "gunsmith" has had the gun twice. First he cobbed a repair by spot welding the back of the ejector. Even when this was pointed out and shown to him in pictures I sent, you still refuse to admit, that the first time the gun was sent with a misfire problem, he did not properly address the issue. Whatever the source of the problem, spot welding the back of the ejector was not the answer. Unless you and your company agree to make the corrections the LTC (R) Perazone, my gunsmith, has told you need to be done, I will not send the gun back A THIRD TIME!!!! Instead I will share my experience with you product and your service with the shotgun and bird hunting community.

COL (R) Mark Warnecke

Hello Mark,

Again I apologize for the inconvenience, we approved the original repair to the gun as we do not have any extractors to replace the original one with. This repair was not to your liking however be aware that it is safe and reliable. We are contacting the factory as we speak to find a resolution. We understand the weld fix is not ideal and not to your liking, keep in mind I must speak with the factory which takes a few days. Again, we will need the shotgun back and we are sending it to a different local gunsmith to confirm your claims, not our Warranty Service Center, to get a 3rd party diagnosis. Your demands and threats are noted, keep in mind we are still doing our best to assist you and need time to address this issue.

Best,


Ike Bekmez
Manager
Dickinson, LLC
p: (805) 978 - 8565
f: (805) 978 - 8564
a: 5140 Commerce Ave. Unit A&B, Moorpark, CA 93021
w: www.dickinsonarms.com e: aykut@dickinsonarms.com


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Liked Replies
by Shotgunjones
Shotgunjones
The fact that others have had no problems seems immaterial.

The point is that if they sell you something that's clearly defective you're dead in the water.

Valuable information.

This company certainly has no monopoly on poor customer service but the ejector 'warranty solution' takes the cake.
2 members like this
by ClapperZapper
ClapperZapper
Originally Posted by Shotgunjones
The fact that others have had no problems seems immaterial.

The point is that if they sell you something that's clearly defective you're dead in the water.

Valuable information.

This company certainly has no monopoly on poor customer service but the ejector 'warranty solution' takes the cake.

A couple thousand dollars for a shotgun means different things to different people.

Dickinson shotguns do have a place in the market.

You just have to understand where you are at if it decides to no longer work.

I must confess, I burst out laughing when the guy at the dealer had the temerity to tell me it was going to be $140 to ship a defective brand new shotgun back-and-forth to California.
And then when it came back, it looked like it had gone for a ride in a fish scaler.

I like shooting it, but no way in hell is it ever going anywhere near the manufacturer’s service center ever again.

I have been over the moon ever since I canceled my order for the ornate model.

And finally, there just isn’t anywhere else to get a 28 gauge, trigger plate action, straight grip, multi choke, shotgun, for two grand.
1 member likes this
by FelixD
FelixD
Having had the Browning factory repair rep in Missouri accuse me of attempting a theft by deception when I asked Browning to just look at a gun to determine what could be done with it, I can I understand the frustration and anger things like this bring. While I'll never buy another Browning product of any type, and I tell everyone about my experience with Browning at every opportunity, I know that most shooters will most likely never have to deal with such gross incompetence and unforgivable, inept, and outrageous customer service. But, I still recommend going to someone other than Browning factory service for repairs.
1 member likes this
by ed good
ed good
i need to sleep nights...

if i were to sell you a gun, i would be up all night worrying that you would shoot yourself in the foot or something...

and as to a grade fox guns, they are a joy...

take a look at this one...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...n-16-gauge-28-quot-.cfm?gun_id=101759347
1 member likes this

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