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Thread Like Summary
SKB, Stanton Hillis
Total Likes: 4
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by PALUNC
PALUNC
Liked Replies
by Stanton Hillis
Stanton Hillis
All the talk about great handling and low weight, due to lack of ribs is kinda lost on me. For that matter, all the bashing of the whole concept of ribs because of some perceived backwards or antiquated idea that the gun is less sound and prone to deterioration from rust, is too. Guns have been successfully built this way for hundreds of years, and I dare say if the world lasts another century and doubleguns are still around, they still will be. Why? Because "it" works. We're shooting 100+ year old guns that were built this way and they're sound as a dollar (okay, bad example).The ultimate critics are the consumers. When there becomes more that an infinitesimally small handful of people who demand ribless guns the makers may begin to notice. Ribs have reasons for being. A field gun without ribs becomes a place for twigs and other trash to get hungup, and accumulate.Top ribs contribute to better shooting and some of us like the wide ones like on many of the old Philly Fox guns. Krieghoffs have been built without side ribs, and other makes as well, for target work, for decades. Are they better than the best target guns with side ribs? Not IMO. Light weight alone does not necessarily contribute to better shooting, and "better handling" is still a moving target that people grasp for, even when they have no clue what it is.

Tell me about the gun that you picked up at the range and shot a round with, and shot the highest score of your life. Tell me about the gun you carried to a dove field and shot 80% with, when you're normally a 50% shooter. Tell me about the little quail gun that you can't miss with, when you've always shot your old favorite with mediocre success. Then, we'll try to determine what, and why, these guns made a difference in your shooting. But, if all you've got to tout is " it's different", "it's radical" or "it's lighter than it's counterparts", or "it's got no place for rust to hide", count me as uninterested.
1 member likes this
by Bluestem
Bluestem
The Perazzi that prompted this discussion is certainly nice. However, OU's will benefit from a ventilated rib if they are intended for high-volume shooting. The ventilated rib will dissipate the heat and associated heatwave visual distortions that appear above the barrel when the barrels get hot. I have an OU with a solid top rib that will develop heatwave distortions during a quick round of skeet. No issues with similar guns using ventilated ribs. So, yes, at least ventilated ribs serve a purpose. Brister and others have also written about the benefit of top ribs.
1 member likes this
by bushveld
bushveld
Originally Posted by Shotgunlover
A comment from someone who makes a living out of relaying ribs is an answer to Stanton. It is from Art Isaacson, of Art's Gunshop..

"There are two kinds of ribs, those that came unstuck and those that will become unstuck".

For me, seeing the rust when ribs are lifted off, is enough to prove that side ribs (and bottom ribs on a SXS) do more harm than good. Top ribs are a pointing aid for many shooter and in any case, they do not create hidden rust traps.

Art has decades of experience and knows his audience well---just view his videos on Youtube and you will see that he one of the most expert gunsmiths of Brownings in the world. His reputation is stellar.

So with that in mind I ask myself who was his audience when he said that? Was it a covey of amateur gun enthusiast or maybe a gun writer who had not practical experience at the gunsmith's bench? If I had been there (I am also an old guy like Art) I would have likely asked " Well, Art is that what I can expect as to the life of ribs on my shotgun barrels that you re-layed for me in your shop?" He would have grinned and said "no, my re-layed ribs last forever."

This is exactly what happens on 80% of shotguns --the ribs last for a lifetime of shooting.

I remember a long discussion with the late Jack Rowe of Birmingham gun trade, and the discussion of how barrels and ribs have to be properly tinned with acid flux and solder (preferable 95-100% Tin) and then the barrels and ribs washed in hot water and a neutralizer to remove 100% of the traces of acid--then then ribs are re-layed with rosin and solder. I also remember him talking about those gunmakers and gunsmiths who did not remove the acid completely which in true Jack Rowe form he called them " Shitty Gunmakers".
1 member likes this
by bushveld
bushveld
Originally Posted by Shotgunlover
Bushveld, Reading your description of the proper laying of ribs leads to the thought "why do all this for bits that provide no functional benefit".


The top rib has a function, as Bluestem notes. Plus, top ribs do not provide hidden rust places and if they come loose there is only one rib to relay, in a gun that has no side ribs that is. As for the handling gains, they could be had, in a Boss or other OU, by omitting the side ribs and keeping the top rib. That would merit the title ribless more than the removal of the top rib alone.

I wish I could post comments made by gunsmiths when they relay ribs, they involve the mother and sisters of the guy who invented ribs, in English, Italian and Spanish. The comments are as inventive as the contraptions gunsmiths make to hold ribs while soldering.

I can understand your disappointment in not have the knowledge and ability to post comments by gunsmiths. It takes a long time to learn the trade and in this regard and for example it took me considerable time to learn how to make barrel sets and several years to learn the basics of engraving. But do not despair. Not everyone has the technical ability and mechanical skills to be a gunsmith and that is OK, the same person may have the artistic talent to be an outstanding engraver. I do not have this artistic ability and will only ever be at best a craftsman engraver. I have found that to my way of thinking it is more important for me to understand my inabilities and focus on reinforcing them than otherwise. However, there is one ability that I have that has helped me greatly it is that I know that I do not know what I do not know.

As to the discussion of whether guns should have ribs, I have little to no interest in that. My interest lies in proper making and installation of barrel ribs. For example few gunsmiths understand that the smaller the gap between the rib and barrel in its fitting and soldering the greater the strength. It seems counter intuitive that a .001" gap between the barrel and the rib is greatly stronger after soldering than a .003"-.004" gap, but it is.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell
1 member likes this

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