doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - 1913 Sauer SxS, I have a few Qs please

Bought this gun and I have a few Qs I'm hoping you guys can help me with. Any info/opinions on any of the below would be a great help!

1)what is the oval hole in the stock in pic #1 below?
2) are the initials in the stock from factory or is that added by a previous owner do u think?
3) do u think it would ruin the gun if I had chambers bored to accept 2 3/4" shells? I don't mean in terms of would it be unsafe, I mean "ruining it" more in terms of taking a cool old gun and sporterizing it which to me kind of ruins a gun.
4) do u think I should leave the stock as is or refinish it? Rest of gun is pretty good (see last pic) but stock has a lot of small dents and dings.

Thx for any help and/or any opinions. Cheers! Mike

P.S. I added pics of all proof marks etc FYI/for reference











[img]https://i.postimg.cc/HnDFSFXh/A2-E9-BEBE-80-EF-4621-951-F-706581011-CB7.jpg[/img]

The hole is where the initial oval was. Don’t know about initials carved in stock, gun looks great and original. I wouldn’t lengthen chambers or refinish the wood unless it was cracked. Very nice. Raimey will be along soon and read you it’s pedigree. Nice find. Excellent case colors.

I would never buy one of these fine old guns that has had the chambers lengthened, ever. It is unnecessary vandalism when correct ammo is available commercially from RST. Your gun appears to be in excellent original condition and simply should stay that way.
Dennis

Mike,
The oval in the stock had an oval piece of metal( Brass, Nickel Silver, Silver ?) let into it, that may have had initials engraved into it. The initials stamped into the stock are a little unusual, but may have been placed there by the workmen that did the stock work and checkering. The stock may be a special request. The 12 in a circle means it has 65mm( 2 5/8") chambers, the 13 is the diameter of the barrels( expressed in gauge measurement) ahead of the chamber. The left barrel is choked( as shown by the crown W), but amount of constriction is not shown. The crown S means the barrels were proofed for shot. The crown U, with an eagle over it means it underwent a View proof, after undergoing a definitive proof with the provisional proof charge. The view proof is a detailed inspection, including verification of dimensions. The Shul proof house started dating them in the early 1920s and this one doesn't show a date, so it was likely made before 1923; The type of proof marks indicate it was proofed after about 1911. The Large crown and "Wildman" stamps are not proof marks, rather they are JP Sauer and son house marks. Whether you have the chambers lengthened or not is entirely your choice. Some people shoot them "as is" with 2 3/4" shells, some people have long forcing cones reamed and use 2 3/4" shells, some people have the chambers lengthened, some people buy short shells. Most people have a strong opinion, one way or the other; but I'm not aware of any damage caused by any of them.
Mike

Given the condition of this gun, to lengthen chambers would come close to vandalism. Shorter shells are at least as available as longer ones and just as effective.

Great set of 3 Ringe tubes that wear a Sauer Quality Stamp & it would be sacrilege to alter them. As Ford said >>FA<< notes effort by a Suhl mechanic & I would say Adamy as I have seen many sets of >>FA<< initials on the flats but not on the wood as I recall. With the >>Nitro<< low on the flats it will date to towards the end of WWI up to 1923.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

AZ would have been the frame filer or actioner. I believe I have seen such several times.

Adolf Zehner
August Ziegler
August Zimmerman

Are a couple guesses.


Yes the Crown & probably a quality crown although it could be an accuracy crown.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Mike, I don’t want to open a can of worms here but you can safely shoot 2 3/4” shells in your gun without any alterations. In fact, several American makers in that time frame cut their chambers short but recommended shooting the longer shells. They wanted the hull to open inside the forcing cone in front of the chamber feeling that provided a better gas seal upon firing. And chamber pressures do not increase significantly. Out of respect for the age of the gun you might only use ammunition listed with no more than 3 dram equivalent and no more than 1 1/8 oz shot though I prefer no more than 1 ounce. Enjoy your wonderful gun! Sauer made fantastic guns!

When I see an old gun like this my choice of shell size is more concerned with how the wood will stand up rather than the action getting loose.

Exactly how I look at it.

Just to put a finer point on it, what I mean to endorse when Rob says "shell size" is the amount of recoil being generated. A function mostly of shot load and speed to which that load is accelerated. Not pressure. It's just rather handy that typically the shells I buy of correct length and loading for the guns I use are also on the low pressure side of the equation.

Those pre war Sauers are pretty nice guns and you seem to have snagged a dandy. Good luck with it.

Quick answer to your question. Very little.

Shock is transmitted almost immediately from the receiver to the wood, and then to you.

Wood shrinks a bit as it ages. That can create gaps where the receiver meets the wood, reducing the load bearing surface and concentrating the recoil on an ever decreasing bit of wood. This is exacerbated by poor care over the decades, particularly the common “oil soaked” head of the stock. The oil further weakens the wood.

No one should ever ship a two piece gun fully assembled. ALWAYS break them down.

I’ve shipped lots of old guns. I pack them like they are valuable antiques. Which they are. I’ve never had a problem. Not saying I won’t but I sure take steps to make sure I don’t. Too many shippers of guns pack them badly.