doublegunshop.com - home Forums Like Post

It certainly appeared that someone was implying an intrinsic design flaw in Fox frames when someone made this comparison to Tobin frames:


I couldn't understand the motivation for posting all of these pics of cracked shotgun frames yet again, for the umpteenth time. Then Ted commented further with an accurate description of the often inappropriate loads that average hunter feeds his shotguns. And then the hysteria all came out in a reply to Ted's tongue-in-cheek comment about Googling “What loads should I use in my Tobin shotgun?” "Let me know what you come up with."

Ted got an answer with several copy-and-paste links that had nothing to do with correct loads for a Tobin. And he also got this comment:


So it appears that all of the drama and photographic evidence of broken shotgun frames is born from a hysterical fear that our vintage doubles are a potential hazard than can disintegrate like a hand grenade if they are fired with the incorrect loads. And this fearsome hazard may even create a serious risk for "our friends and children in approximation to us when we pull the trigger"! And furthermore, the serious consequences of choosing the wrong shotgun shells may indicate a lack of personal responsibility on Ted's part... all because he related what sort of ammunition the average shooter buys and shoots. Shame on you Ted.

The facts remain. There is not, and has not been any serious or widespread problem with frame cracking in vintage shotguns. I mentioned earlier that around 220,000 or so Flues guns were produced before 1926. Almost 157,000 Fox Sterlingworth guns were built until 1940, along with a lot more higher grade Fox guns. And it appears that only a small handful of frames have cracked in those guns. In addition, I have not heard of a single shooter, or friend, or small child who was injured or killed when those few frames cracked. In fact, it appears that the Flues that was the subject of this thread was simply repaired with the addition of side plates, and was probably returned to service.

So while we are on the subject of personal responsibility, I feel it is irresponsible to post false and/or totally useless information about our vintage doubles. It seems that with all of these photos of shotguns with cracked frames, we don't even know the circumstances or what loads were used when they cracked. It could have happened with 3" Magnums, heavy duck loads, hot handloads, or 2 1/2" low pressure RST's. A horse could have rolled on the gun. We just don't know. It serves no good purpose to run around like Chicken Little shouting that the sky is falling and old shotguns are fracturing and blowing up. We already have enough misinformation out there about how deadly dangerous it is to fire any gun with Damascus barrels. For the average shooter, there is probably much more risk of getting hurt or killed in a traffic accident on the way to hunting or the skeet club, than getting hurt from using the occasional Super-X or Wally World promotional loads. Most truly knowledgeable guys here know by now that the major risk from using the wrong loads is causing damage to old stock wood, or causing the gun to slowly shoot loose. As I said before, the majority of these old doubles are still functional and safe to use after going on 100 years or more. Compare that record to the percentage of cars and trucks or appliances from the same era that are still serviceable and safe. The sky is NOT falling!