doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com .Black Powder loads for a .500 BPE

I have some shells loaded with Nitro and would like to reload them with Black Powder. Currently I am using 42 grains of 3132 and am wondering if I can go to 130 grains of BP. The cartridges of the world book says the proper load is 135 to 140 grains. Any suggestions?

My experience with black powder cartridges has been to load so that the powder comes up to the base of the slug after light compression or when dropped through a drop tube. I would strongly recommend "the paper jacket" by Paul Mathews before loading. Not particularly for safety but for accuracy. I would also strongly recommend using a very soft lube such as SPG or 50-50 mix of animal grease + bees wax and cast your slugs from around 5% alloy (95% lead). I would use a drop tube and try both 2F and 1F granulations for accuracy.

cheers Doug

jas,
any bp load would minimally start at roughly a full case, drop tubed of course. From there, you may wish to go up additionally while compressing the powder. Compresson on a case of that size could easily be as great as 3/8 of an inch but smaller is probably more accurate. I would completely forget about the book in this case. BP is not so standardized that you can assume that a 135 gr load from company X in granulation Y from yesteryear is anything like a 135 gr load of powder brand A in granulation B being made today.

BP specialized lube on the bullets and card wads on the base are standard protocol. You will want to learn about blow tubing or wiping between shots.

If you want to go with paper patched bullets, I'd be happy to help. They have a few other issues to consider.

There are a number of places on the net that have copious numbers of well educated bp cartridge riflemen. The http://www.bpcr.net forum, Shiloh Sharps company forum, the ASSRA forum, and MSN's BPCR forum are just a few.

Brent

Be careful not to overcompress your charge. When I was first starting out, I figured that like scotch, if a little is good a lot is better :>) I made up a plunger so I could really compress the powder in a 32-40; the result was that they shot 1 foot low at 100 yds because the powder now burned like a great big briquet. If you feel that you need more oomph then go to 3F powder.
Black powder is unlike smokeless in the sense that more or less you fill the case and don't particularly have to worry about pressures as long as you do not use 4F powder which is only for priming flintlocks.

cheers Doug

Doug, BP powder has to be pressed and pressed pretty hard. I have read old time hunters used hammer for that (I didn't try that and use my both hands for that). If you have accuracy problems, check all stuff again and again.
When loading BP, there must be enough space for grease cookie and bullet seat. I make grease cookie thickness about 1/8", mix of 50% animal grease and 50% beewax. Without grease cookie using BP loads you just waste your time.
135-140 gr sounds right for 500 BPE and these 5 gr is for barrels regulation.
I tried 3F granulation in 577 BPE even and found it the best for BPE, bullet velocity = to old time catalogs data, but it was Russian BP.

Doug,
I routinely compress as much as .43" and have never seen this effect in my .45-2.6. Nor have I ever heard of this problem before. Generally, swelling the case from over compression results to the point it won't chamber if you go much over this but Bill Bagwell has compressed over 0.5" with good success.

I've done this sort of compression with Swiss and Goex from 1fg down to 3fg.

Grease cookies are not used by the vast majority of people that shoot grease groove bullets. However, as an advocate of paper patched bullets, I use them routinely. Depending on the purpose of the load, the lube in this application may be as thin as 0.6" or as thick as 0.375".

Brent

I suspect that with the large and longer cases and coarser powders, it is more difficult to overcompress, compared to a short case and 3F powder. I will strongly disagree with Geno though; black powder has to be compressed but not strongly compressed. A drop tube only I believe is good enough although I use a drop tube and maybe 1/8" compression.
I have used grease cookies but found them a nuisance and currently use just a card wad cut from a milk carton between powder and slug. I have also shot paper patch but again they are a nuisance and I only occasionally go back and try them because something else is not working :>)
In the 32-40, the effect was very noticeable; I made a .32 diameter steel plug, put a 7/8 bolt in the top of the loading press and scrunched the powder down. The shell still chambered but usually shot quite low from a gun that was otherwise consistent. 32-40 is not the only caliber I shoot, currently 38-56 but also many others including rimfire cases in small doses. I use hilti shells as primers in them :>)

cheers Doug

FWIW, my most accurate loads for shooting clean in my .45-2.6 use 1996 Goex Cartridge uncompressed, with a 0.09" grease wad and a 535 gr paper patched bullet.

My most accurate loads for shooting dirty are 90 grs of the same compressed about 0.375" with a lube cookie of about 0.3" and the same bullet.

The first load, shot dirty is slightly less accurate than the second load when shot clean.

But shot dirty, the first load will absolutely murder the second load in the accuracy department.

Brent

What was suggested to me was 450 gr .512 Lyman bullets, bullet lube (sticks), Lyman #2 Bullet Alloy, Dupont 3031 (nitro)41 gr., and CCI Magnum Primers - Large Rifle #250. Oh yes, dacron filler to cover the dead space.
It took me a while to find this paper, my supplies have been on order for over two months through the local gunsmith.

Also are there any shoots on the West Coast - Canada - US that we can go to?
JAS

Ups, forgot!! I want to work on a BP load. Thanks for the above information. jas