doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fake Manton?

I looked at a 12 gauge British made SXS hammer gun today, 36 inch barrels, no chokes or the chokes were larger than full (all I did was the �dime� test on it). It�s a side lever made by J. Manton & Co., however it appears to have Birmingham proofs. Except for it�s rough condition, it was a nice quality gun with tasteful engraving, a forend with an ebony nose piece held on by a barrel wedge, and fairly tight checkering (not the usual huge flat pyramids seen on older guns). I�m afraid I don�t have any photos.
Was this gun made by Manton, or simply made by a Birmingham firm cashing in on the name?
Steve

There were two 'original' Mantons, Joseph and John. After they had finished the name was used by Manton & Co who were a retailer in Calcutta, It is likely that a Birmingham made hammer gun was supplied by them, though John Manton's old business was in London until 1878.

Actualy the firm of Manton and Co was established in Calcutta by John Augustus and Fredrick Manton and was aquired by WR Wallis who ran the buisness into the 20thC. There was also the firms of John Manton and that of his brother Joseph who was gunmaker to the East India Co. ,thus an Indian connection. It is not clear from my listing and there does not appear to to be any direct connection between Manton of Calcutta and the Mantons of London .Unless they were sons of John Manton of London.
I would hazzard a guess that the gun you have is one that was made by or for the Indian firm .

I think there's a mention of the Manton & Co of Calcutta in one of Maharaja Cooch-Behar's books, and, provided my memory serves, this Indian prince whose favorite maker was Holland&Holland states that he also ordered some guns from Manton&Co and found them of superb quality. Looks like the company could provide some fine guns.

I believe there was a connection between London and Calcutta, in that the Calcutta location was started by Frederick, who was a son of Joseph (I have read). Apparently the books and stock records of Joseph Manton guns were all sent out to India upon his death and subsequently eaten by white ants. They held the names of all his customers. See this post http://shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=299954

In the back of the Manton book by Keith and Neal there is chart titled "other firearms marked" Manton". In that chart are listed two center fire,12b hammer guns with Birmingham proofs. Both guns are marked J.Manton and both guns have nothing to do with Joseph or John or any of that Manton family.

Hi Justin,
Thanks for your input (in fact, thanks to everyone for their input) and what you state is what I fear. However, this old gun, while long in the tooth, was a pretty nice gun at one time, though certainly not a "best" gun. I'm going to visit with the seller and I'll bring my camera and take a few photos as well as measure the chokes, LOP and drop at the heal.
Steve

Looking forward for more intel & photos, Justin

I have a toplever 12 ga hammergun of decent quality marked J Manton which I attribute to J P Clabrough based on similarity to a 16 ga gun marked Lovell Arms, Boston.
Others on this site have posted receipts from Clabrough to a Boston firm for shipments of guns marked J Manton. Try a search with those names.

I went over an looked at that looong barreled Manton again. Like a damned fool I forgot my camera. The guns barrels measured .715 consistent with the number 13 on the proof. It has cylinder bores, though I don't think it's been cut (maybe the barrels were cut down from 38" to 36"s (LOL)). Though I don't have a picture, there's a similar gun shown in Carders Side by Sides of the World for Y2K, on the top of page 129, the only difference being this one doesn't have back-action locks. The damascus barrels were dirty inside, but didn't look to be in bad shape. It has a 14.5" LOP to the front trigger and about 2-5/8" drop at the heal, the heal having a steel butt-plate. It weighs 8.5 lbs. The wood is rather plain, but should exhibit nice fiddel-back if it were refinished. Because of the lack of choke (and more importantly for me, lack of money) I decided not to make even a low-ball offer for it. However, if anyone's interested Charlie Harris at Storied Firearms in Austin is the seller 512-394-0125.
Steve