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Jan 21st, 2024
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DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads Jolly Bill 03/19/24 03:44 AM
Back about 11 or 12 years ago when I started shooting Sporting Clays and Skeet, I used standard factory 12 gauge target loads - 1 1/8 ounce.

I got a super good deal on a 12 gauge MEC Sizemaster and started loading my own. I downsized to 1 ounce and then 7/8 ounce and then 3/4 ounce. I then went one step further and started loading and shooting 1/2 ounce 12 gauge loads. I had them tested by Tom Armbrust 9 years ago this month. Pressure around 6,000 psi and the speed is about 1350 fps. Been shooting 1/2 ounce 12 gauge loads ever since at the rate of about 4,000 per year.

For Skeet and the Sporting Clays course at my club, there isn't a target thrown that can't be broken if you hit it. Correct, it doesn't smoke 'em but they do break if you hit them.

The old gents that I shoot with don't keep score and no big deal if you miss. More of a social event than a shooting event. I don't hunt anymore.

And I don't mind getting twice as many loads out of a bag of shot. I do shoot 20 gauge too and hand load 1/2 ounce in that gauge also.

One of our club's top notch trap shooters usually goes 25 straight in trap. I had him shoot a round with my 1/2 ounce loads. He broke 24 and didn't know if that missed bird was the ammo or him. He was delighted with the lack of recoil. Me too!
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads BrentD, Prof 03/19/24 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
Originally Posted by SKB
My reason could not be more simple, I only own two shotguns and both are 12 ga., I do not shoot 3/4 OZ often but I regularly shoot 7/8 OZ at both clays and Blue Grouse.

That's not simple, for me, Steve. Regardless how many shotguns you own, why would you want to shoot 3/4 oz. loads in a 12, when statistics prove that a 1 oz. load would kill targets or birds more reliably at "distance"? Do you limit yourself to a certain distance for both, and if so, what is that distance?

Stan, you know folks hunt birds with .410s and 28s, so why NOT hunt them with light loads in a 12 gauge?

If you need more or just want more, then have at it. But why worry so much about what others shoot? You wouldn't think twice about someone hunting grouse or even pheasants with a 20 gauge, probably using 7/8 oz loads.

Not everyone is a sky blaster.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads Stanton Hillis 03/19/24 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by SKB
My reason could not be more simple, I only own two shotguns and both are 12 ga., I do not shoot 3/4 OZ often but I regularly shoot 7/8 OZ at both clays and Blue Grouse.

That's not simple, for me, Steve. Regardless how many shotguns you own, why would you want to shoot 3/4 oz. loads in a 12, when statistics prove that a 1 oz. load would kill targets or birds more reliably at "distance"? When I shoot clays I want smoke, not a chip. Do you limit yourself to a certain distance for both, and if so, what is that distance?

Still trying to understand my friend, not argue.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads Stanton Hillis 03/19/24 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by eeb
I started shooting 3/4 oz in a 12 a few years ago when shot became difficult to get. That load will stretch a bag of shot and break targets fine. I stopped using that load ( and this may sound odd) because the recoil is nothing. I need more “feedback” from my gun than what the recoil of a 3/4 oz 12 gauge load will give.

(1) How far do you think a 3/4 oz. load will break targets on edge with 100% reliability? I need a load that will do that at 50-60 yards with certainty. If I decide to limit myself to closer ranges I use a lesser gauge with a lesser payload, willingly. But, I shoot sporting clays on some tough courses. I am certain 1 1/8 oz. load of 7 1/2s at 1175 fps will do that at 50-60 yards. I use .410s a good deal for doves. I know with 100% certainty how far a .410 will reliably kill a dove. It is a 35 yard gun, maximum.

(2) I understand 100% about the "feedback" (recoil) issue. It is very disconcerting for a load to have too little recoil in my 12 ga. guns.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads GLS 03/19/24 01:46 AM
Years ago I gave a 12 ga. Beretta gas auto to my 12 year old stepson and loaded 3/4 oz. light recoiling ammo. The stock was trimmed and barrel length reduced as he was small framed at the time. To show it wasn't just "kid's" ammo, I shot the same out of my Rem. 3200. He and I killed plenty of doves with the load. Shooting 3/4 oz. out of an 8 lb. shotgun was a pleasant experience. Gil
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Hortonium eeb 03/19/24 01:16 AM
How is this stuff made, cold fusion?
16 416 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads eeb 03/19/24 01:14 AM
The powder companies do suck, especially Alliant.

I started shooting 3/4 oz in a 12 a few years ago when shot became difficult to get. That load will stretch a bag of shot and break targets fine. I stopped using that load ( and this may sound odd) because the recoil is nothing. I need more “feedback” from my gun than what the recoil of a 3/4 oz 12 gauge load will give. I use 7/8 oz low(er) pressure loads in my old guns.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads Shotgunjones 03/19/24 12:54 AM
I generally agree with Stan on this one, although I do load 7/8oz 12 for my one and only Damascus barrel Parker. I figure it will outlive me at 5,400 psi. Those same loads through a M-21 skeet gun prove perfectly satisfactory for skeet.

Started loading a 3/4 oz. 20 at 1150 fps for a light SxS that seemed to spread fire with standard loads. When I tried those in a K-20, they were so pleasant that I bought another case of those green wads. Now the problem is finding International or Green Dot.

The powder companies suck.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Hortonium craigd 03/19/24 12:49 AM
A step ahead of you, I'll wave to you from over by the thing. You keep the ptail, Clapton wuz mo bettah, 4 the spelling teach.
16 416 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads BrentD, Prof 03/19/24 12:30 AM
The reasons are pretty simple for most folks. Saving lead that can be hard to come by, saving money that is always hard to come by. Then there is space savings and not needing 1/2 dozen reloading presses for shotguns is a good thing for both the pocketbook and the benches. The last thing I need in my basement is 4 times more wads and hulls than I already have.

And last, but not least, shooting the guns I like to shoot for ducks, pheasants, and everything else with lighter loads makes for enjoyable summer shooting that helps keep me familiar with a smaller set of stock drops and cast offs that I will be using in the fall for hunting.

I'd rather have only a dozen shotguns to go with the 3-4 dozen rifles than the other way around. Just what works for me.
13 176 Read More
German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: O/U - Bockbüchsflinte Rifle Caliber Question ellenbr 03/19/24 12:24 AM
I would @ least measure it. Interesting that the bore diameter seems to be missing. Can you make a stab @ the diameter?

Made in Zella - Mehlis by some of the Best in 1918(1913??). Tubes by Syndicat Liégeois.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 30 Read More
Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Podcasts with Gunmakers by Reto Bueler Fudd 03/18/24 11:33 PM
There's a new one up. Ian Sweetman. Most of my shotguns and all of my rifles and pistols are older than he is. Thoughtful bloke.

I love this series.
10 1,509 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads dukxdog 03/18/24 11:19 PM
We started 3/4oz 12ga loads to conserve shot.

Then I bought a lifetime shot supply so upped to 7/8 & 1oz 12ga loads.

My friend still chooses to shoot the 3/4oz 12ga shells because he hates recoil. He's plenty satisfied with how they break clays. I was also when I was using them myself.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads ClapperZapper 03/18/24 11:13 PM
Competitive rules specify the max legal load you can use.
Scores went up when the 12 ga load was dropped to 24g

In .410 there is a 50% advantage to using 3/4oz vs 1/2oz

Outside of sanctioned events, I vote for using whatever brings the greatest confidence.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads Mark II 03/18/24 11:00 PM
I started using 3/4 oz in 12ga years ago. mainly because I wanted a cheap skeet load that was low pressure for all my old guns. All I had were 12's. I shot low gun skeet. One night I was at a practice with our local collegiate team and they needed someone to fill out a trap squad. All I had in the truck was a 1902 O grade LC. At 16yds I kept up with them and they were all amazed I shot that well with a Damascus sxs well over 100 years old and 3/4 oz loads. Last year I won a game that used a regular trap house, that you stood behind and then 6 other traps in a circle with about a 35 yard radius. Everyone was shooting sxs, that's how we roll. The talk before shooting everyone said you needed tight chokes and at least 71/2 shot heavy loads. I didn't want to shoot because I was using an AyA XXV with open chokes and 3/4 oz #8 shot. It came down to the last shot to win and I did. When I told the trappers what I was using and they couldn't believe it. If I'm on the target will break out to about 20yd trap. That is probably because I don't know what that sight picture should look like. I started being cheap but it seems to work.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads Chantry 03/18/24 10:56 PM
Being a SASS (cowboy action) shooter I see a lot of people loading down the 12 gauge. 3/4 or 7/8 of an ounce at approximately 950 fps in a 12 gauge is a very light recoiling gun and normally more than enough for knockdown targets. It's very popular with the very competitive shooters, shooters with physical impairments and men and women who can't handle the recoil of the generic factory ammo offered by various makers (1 or 1 1/8 ounces of shot between 1150-1200 fps). I'll note that nothing smaller then a 20 gauge is allowed in SASS aside from .410's for children.

I'm not a hunter and mostly I shoot skeet with some 5 stand or sporting clays. For me 1 oz at 1200 fps will normally work for 99% of the targets.

I don't consider myself very recoil sensitive, but there are a fair number of people who are and factory 16 gauge and 20 gauge can be uncomfortable, especially in a gun sized down for the smaller gauge.

Not every one can afford multiple shotguns and a 12 is easily the most flexible of the shotgun gauges loading down or up as needed
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Changing load components Jimmy W 03/18/24 10:34 PM
I always used International Clays. If I remember right, I used about what was similar on the label- 7/8 oz. Claybuster Wad, 14.2 gr charge in Gun Club hull. About a 1200 fps load. And whatever shot you want. It makes a nice skeet load.

Ol' Lefty
5 109 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Gauges and payloads SKB 03/18/24 10:28 PM
My reason could not be more simple, I only own two shotguns and both are 12 ga., I do not shoot 3/4 OZ often but I regularly shoot 7/8 OZ at both clays and Blue Grouse.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Gauges and payloads Stanton Hillis 03/18/24 10:24 PM
This is a question that has bugged me for some time, now. I see so often that shooters here load 3/4 oz. loads for 12 ga. guns. I would like some explanation on why different folks do this.

I have doubleguns in all popular gauges ...... 10, 12, 16, 20, 28 and .410 bore. I have developed, for me, a pretty strict "chart" of payloads that I will use in the different gauges and bores. They are as follows:

10 - 1 1/4 oz. and up
12 - 1 oz. thru 1 3/8 oz.
16 - 1 oz. thru 1 1/8 oz.
20 - 7/8 oz. thru 1 oz.
28 - 3/4 oz.
.410 - 1/2 oz. thru 3/4 oz.

What are the reasons for using a 3/4 oz. load in a 12 ga. gun? I know all the arguments about short-for-the-gauge shot columns, cost savings on the shot, recoil reduction, etc. But, using a 3/4 oz. load in a 12 has never appealed to me, not even in a 16 or 20 for that matter. And, I would like to understand the reasoning behind others doing this. When there are gauges well suited to lesser payloads why go to the effort to load an "anemic" load in a larger bore?

There won't be any belittling of anyone's opinions by me, whatever they are. I'd just like to understand the motivations of different folks.

Thanks in advance. Please share your opinions.
13 176 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Changing load components Jimmy W 03/18/24 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Nitrah
I am loading 20 ga 3/4 oz loads with 13.5 Gr of Green Dot and 12 ga 3/4 oz loads with 15 gr of Tite Wad. It would seem I could substitute 15 gr of Tite Wad into the 20 ga load. You might asky why, well I have plenty of Tite Wad and almost out of Green Dot.


What are you shooting?

Ol' Lefty
5 109 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Changing load components Shotgunjones 03/18/24 09:46 PM
The reason is that Titewad is too fast for 20 gauge.

The 20 does not have the expansion room a very quick powder needs.

I feel your pain, but Titewad is not a particularly low pressure powder even in the 12.

This is not to say that a load can't be developed in a ballistics lab, just that it hasn't been and that's the only responsible way to approach it.
5 109 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Hortonium SKB 03/18/24 09:38 PM
Some things never go out style Craig.....A ponytail, a comfy pair of Birkenstocks, Granola, Best quality British falling block rifles.....and the Rolling Stones. I'll be there in June, hanging with my old pal Keith, hope to see you there wink
16 416 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
Re: Hortonium craigd 03/18/24 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by SKB
It's for real, how well it works, costs, etc I can not say. I'm still a lead guy, all the other options are a compromise I'm not willing to make unless forced. I don't hunt waterfowl and stick to places that me, my Holland and lead shot are welcome. I know some of you play different games, this just might be the ticket for your needs.
Style points Steve, magananimous and tastefully bitter. I like it, direct, agree completely.
16 416 Read More
German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
O/U - Bockbüchsflinte Rifle Caliber Question Utah Shotgunner 03/18/24 09:22 PM
I'm not sure if my ability to find stuff on the intermess has gotten worse, of if the sites are gone.
Trying to determine the caliber of this rifle barrel. Shotgun barrel is 32ga

I believe all pertinent marks are shown in this one pic.
My best guess is 5.6x52R though the bore appears to be larger.

Yeah, I should slug bore and cast chamber, but I am going for the quick and easy answer. wink

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 30 Read More
DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Jump to new posts
A short video on barrel sleeving. Fudd 03/18/24 09:20 PM
Found this on the Horton & Sons website. It clarified a few things for me. Might be of interest to others.

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