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11 members (cable, craigd, battle, AZMike, FlyChamps, Hammergun, 1 invisible),
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Key:
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Forums10
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Most Online1,131 Jan 21st, 2024
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Re: OT- New Colorado DOW commission
craigd
03/28/24 06:36 PM
Metoo Steve. But, we don’t even know if a single kid has signed up to participate so far, let’s temper our foregone conclusions? Or, maybe prof was spot on, we are powerless to have convictions, without a grant. Let’s get busy, nut job right wingers have an equal chance at the cash. When you hit the grant lotto, I’ll volunteer to help you start a gun making shop, in those denver hs? But hey, good news, my youngest was kicking some rear end working in denver commercial real estate, and they moved out of state, citing the crime, just two months ago. Weird.
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
Sandlapper
03/28/24 06:20 PM
I hadn't thought about the 200 & 300 series Merkels until they were mentioned, but the whole 200-204 series only have the Kersten crossbolt with no Purdey underbolting, whereas the 300-304 series have both underbolting and crossbolt.The 203E & 204E are considered pretty high grade guns. This thread also reminded me of a Churchill Premiere XXV 12 two-barrel set I have that has the Smith easy opening action with no top fastener and only a single bite on the rear underlug, and it was built in 1961.It's London proofed for 2 3/4" loads and weighs in at 6lbs. If it passed 2 3/4" proof with one lug, it's good enough for me. Regards, Sandlapper
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Re: Holts March 2024
Owenjj3
03/28/24 06:14 PM
On the question of English vs. US auctions, my general sense is that auction (and dealer retail) prices are better in England, even considering import costs and currency fluctuations. This is especially true for rare or high-condition English guns. That is a gross generalization that does not hold in all circumstances, of course. However, consider that the US auction house is primarily selling US made guns and if they offer English guns at all it is 5% of what they sell on a given auction day. Holts or Lonsdale's, for example sell 90% English guns and so the quantities and available and range of condition/configuration options are far superior.
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
Ted Schefelbein
03/28/24 05:40 PM
Really?
It would be hard to get much lower grade than my model.8 in that lovely picture down below that Fuse and Ted hate so much. It has two under lugs and a cross bolt. You will have to remind me where I said I hated your picture. I feel sorry for your dogs, and your neighbors, but, that is totally different. Best, Ted
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Re: Reilly Side-Lever SxS .410 - 1884
Argo44
03/28/24 04:55 PM
I totally get what Jon is telling me and he for sure is correct that the barrels were beyond proof - there's no way a .410 SxS Side-lever hammer gun with intact Damascus barrels could have sold for that price. But here's where it became confusing over this gun - nowhere in the advertisement is it mentioned that this is a "stock, action, fore-end" gun. Past Holt's advertisements would make this clear. Here is an example from a 2023 Holt's auction, SN 24701: https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++8056+&refno=++177789&saletype=Oh well....it's all hypothetical since someone got the gun and will do something with it. A few years ago I missed out on a similar .410 side-lever hammer gun that was in good condition, SN 25851 - same year, same generation: https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-em/hammer/410-gauge/side-lever-180723174108286Beautifully scaled little 410 hammer-gun ( collectors piece ) , reproofed 2007 and very rarely fired since ! bores in particularly good condition , unusual to find a 410 with Damascus barrels -- top rib reads E M Reilly & Co 16 New Oxford Street, London & RUE SCRIBE PARIS . metric bore measurement 10.50mm in both tubes and estimated chokes LH 1/4 RH 1/8 with the chambers being 2 1/2" as seen in photos attached .
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Re: Gauges and payloads
Jimmy W
03/28/24 01:45 PM
I don't shoot clay targets with a SxS. The gun I was referring to was a Ljutic trap gun that I patterned. They don't make a SxS. The guns I buy are quality enough to be pretty accurate. I've never owned a gun that shot off to the side or had big holes in the pattern. That Model 21 Trap I showed on here a few months ago that I had Pauline Muerelle engrave is a good example. Before I took it to Connecticut it doubled. I had the gunsmith fix that. After I got it back I took it to the trap range and shot it. And .even though I had only put two shells through the gun before (at the same time)I ran a dozen rounds through it to make sure it didn't double and missed one target. I could tell exactly how it shot. Anybody should be able to pick up a gun and tell how it shoots after a few boxes of shells. Tom Knapp could take a field grade 870- slide it down in his shoulder pocket, stack the beads and run 25 straight trap rounds. Then he could use the same gun for dove hunting and slide it back up inhis arm and align the beads for that and never miss a bird. I do the same thing. It's not all that hard to pick up a gun and use it for clay targets and figure out how it shoots. At least not for me. And a lot of people I know. If one of my buddies came into my club with a new gun and I asked them if they were going to pattern it, they'd think I was nuts. I don't try to talk people out off patterning a gun. I just don't do it myself. But to each his own, I guess. I'm sorry if it upsets you guys, but that's the way I do it. Good luck. 👍
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Re: OT- New Colorado DOW commission
SKB
03/28/24 01:43 PM
No big deal cback, you may recall I’ve had some of the same thoughts, on and off, as you are expressing now. Let’s give you the win here, on the subject of empirical data?
I’m wondering why there’s willful ignoring of my hope that results can be shown. However it is painted, I can recognize this thread as an empirical data win for the left, success, proof, what have you. Is less of a loss, a win, sure, but on whose landscape?
One way, I’m certain not the best, is to recall how much fun, I believe you said you had in the US Dakotas, shooting pistols? I can see and understand empirical wins for the left, but it’s not the same situation for places that have already lost, in many more quantifiable ways? I choose to narrow the conversation to locales that I perceive are on the cusp of losing far morel?
So, we have your strategy of taking on the left with an ineffective version of itself, and then we have the mentioned apathy, and then we have our friends at the shooting range and in the field, voting against us. So yes, a win is defined as successfully recruiting young folks who will vote for candidates that you approve of. I would frame a win as introducing young folks to shooting sports and the outdoors, I would hope that might translate into newbies who value both nature and shooting sports.
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Re: Reilly Side-Lever SxS .410 - 1884
Licensed to kill
03/28/24 01:37 PM
I just bought a sxs .410 hammer gun a week ago at a local gunshow. Always wanted one but never see them. It is on a properly scaled action (like the one in this thread) and is a real sweetheart. Not perfect shape but very shootable. 28" barrels and tipping the scales at a whopping 3 pounds 11 OZ. The is it next to my CZ Bobwhite 20 GA for size comparison. The right hammer screw is a replacement and when I took the locks out to inspect and oil, I decided to take the locks down to do a proper cleaning (they were pretty good anyways) and as soon as I put screw driver to hammer screw on the left lock (with what appeared to be the original hammer screw) the head popped off. Apparently, the screw had been twisted off and the head glued back on for show LOL. Just ordered a 5-40 die so I can make two new screws and engrave them to match the broken one. I might make the heads just a titch smaller so they don't overwhelm the hammers like the ones on it.
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Re: OT- New Colorado DOW commission
craigd
03/28/24 01:35 PM
No big deal cback, you may recall I’ve had some of the same thoughts, on and off, as you are expressing now. Let’s give you the win here, on the subject of empirical data?
I’m wondering why there’s willful ignoring of my hope that results can be shown. However it is painted, I can recognize this thread as an empirical data win for the left, success, proof, what have you. Is less of a loss, a win, sure, but on whose landscape?
One way, I’m certain not the best, is to recall how much fun, I believe you said you had in the US Dakotas, shooting pistols? I can see and understand empirical wins for the left, but it’s not the same situation for places that have already lost, in many more quantifiable ways? I choose to narrow the conversation to locales that I perceive are on the cusp of losing far morel?
So, we have your strategy of taking on the left with an ineffective version of itself, and then we have the mentioned apathy, and then we have our friends at the shooting range and in the field, voting against us.
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
ChiefAmungum
03/28/24 01:18 PM
Whew! Happy you explained the voice texting! Thought you'd stripped a gear!
I refer you to page one, Eightbore's post RE double underlugs. He is spot on. I don't think a Win. 21 would balk at about whatever you could fire in it!
Chief
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
BrentD, Prof
03/28/24 01:06 PM
Thanks Parabola for showing a certainly not low end gun with the inclined slot/doll's head rib extension. For Brent's edification has it ever popped open on firing?
And Brent, I don't believe that, you twist! I believe the Merkle has double underlugs and crossbolt? Not one lug and crossbolt? I remember you have or have had in your estimation a soulless, ugly Ithaca/SKB. Double underlug, rarely single underlug. Still get it out for Grouse?
Chief You said one locking system. I took that to mean one locking lug. Regardless, I would not shoothe ammo that?I run through my miracle in a two Underlog action. No the s k b does not go grouse hunting or really much of anything else. I sure as hell would not want to hunt turkeys with it although others might. My apologies for the strange verbiage.This voice to text it's not very effective and I don't have time to fix it
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
ChiefAmungum
03/28/24 12:40 PM
Thanks Parabola for showing a certainly not low end gun with the inclined slot/doll's head rib extension. For Brent's edification has it ever popped open on firing?
And Brent, I don't believe that, you twist! I believe the Merkle has double underlugs and crossbolt? Not one lug and crossbolt? I remember you have or have had in your estimation a soulless, ugly Ithaca/SKB. Double underlug, rarely single underlug. Still get it out for Grouse?
Chief
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Re: OT- New Colorado DOW commission
canvasback
03/28/24 12:33 PM
One thing I try to do is be the very best hunter-conservationist I can....
....have stewardship cred that can’t be challenged. If hunters walk—the-walk I think we’ll keep our place on the landscape. I know beyond any doubt, that your first line is unquestionable for many of us, but I believe we all know there is a shrinking landscape. If hunters walk the walk, shouldn't they have a say in what their place is. Why won't anyone ask, why were songbirds brought up at this meeting, and what was the motivation? Were songbirds brought up in the context of an entire ecosystem, or as an incidental antihunting point to fire up that base. Does context matter. If any of those who gave you a like, said they've never seen hunting grounds closed due to a non game species lobbying effort, would anyone believe them. You challenge me to show some empirical evidence and then do so yourself. You are being wilfully obtuse and a great example why the left of centre has been eating the right of centre's lunch for 60 years. You think you can limit the issue to just the US. Or just teenage ecology groups? Simply laughable Craig. I don't know why you are arguing with me about this, as the evidence is everywhere, except an utter unwillingness to concede ANY point to the other side. The Right fails to learn again and again. Why do you think the younger crowd is currently so enamoured with socialism? Despite it's abject failure everywhere at every point in time? It's because it's activists won't give up. They infiltrated our educational system, and through that our media and they won't stop. I'm making a point about tactics and you respond as though we have different objectives. Nutty!
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Re: OT- New Colorado DOW commission
craigd
03/28/24 12:20 PM
One thing I try to do is be the very best hunter-conservationist I can....
....have stewardship cred that can’t be challenged. If hunters walk—the-walk I think we’ll keep our place on the landscape. I know beyond any doubt, that your first line is unquestionable for many of us, but I believe we all know there is a shrinking landscape. If hunters walk the walk, shouldn't they have a say in what their place is. Why won't anyone ask, why were songbirds brought up at this meeting, and what was the motivation? Were songbirds brought up in the context of an entire ecosystem, or as an incidental antihunting point to fire up that base. Does context matter. If any of those who gave you a like, said they've never seen hunting grounds closed due to a non game species lobbying effort, would anyone believe them.
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
Parabola
03/28/24 12:14 PM
Westley Richards relied on the top extension alone in their early hammer breech-loaders as well as the first Anson and Deeley actions (seen here in an Edwinson Green c.1880). As I understand it, when a double under bolt is properly fitted the entire load (in the absence of excessive action flexing or some failure) is taken by the rear bite the front bite acting as a reserve. Add a top extension and whether the load is taken by the rear bottom bolt and/or the top extension is a matter of how well fitted each bolt is.
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
BrentD, Prof
03/28/24 12:14 PM
Disagree if you like. I imagine there is a lot more story to that broken rib extension than the obvious. By the way the Merkle could suffer similar damage, a rib extension is a rib extension.
I would ask, had the Merkle only had one locking system or the other would you have not bought it? Several other criteria that I look at first. Configuration, fit, condition, weight, balance etc. Would I buy a Merkle, sure! Seek one out solely because of its locking scheme, no.
Chief No I would not have bought it.I would definitely not have bought it, had it only one locking lug or mechanism.
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Re: Advantages of the top rib extension bolt
ChiefAmungum
03/28/24 12:06 PM
Disagree if you like. I imagine there is a lot more story to that broken rib extension than the obvious. By the way the Merkle could suffer similar damage, a rib extension is a rib extension.
I would ask, had the Merkle only had one locking system or the other would you have not bought it? Several other criteria that I look at first. Configuration, fit, condition, weight, balance etc. Would I buy a Merkle, sure! Seek one out solely because of its locking scheme, no.
Chief
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