There are some gundealers who won't budge a dime off listings. As has been pointed out, some guns sold by dealers are on consignment and unless they are willing to take a cut of commission without leaving a net to the seller being the same amount if sold at full price, they have no authority to lower the "ask". Dealer who actually own guns are more inclined to move some. Individuals selling guns who aren't in the business will often move off the asking. There are "tells". An individual who states the price is his "asking" price is hinting that he is open to negotiation. "Firm" means "firm", but there is no penalty for counteroffering. Worse thing seller can do in that instance is say "no". "Firm" offers by non-dealers will often loosen up over time. If you do a "wouldja take" counteroffer, you better mean it if accepted. Anyone who feels insulted at an offer being too low is blowing smoke if they say negotiation is over because of the low offer. Do not ever bid against yourself. A buddy who was in law school sold cars during summer break while numbskulls such as me worked construction. His sales manager gave the following advice: "Tell the potential customer what the sales price is. Never say there might be movement. Make the offer and shut up. If you feel compelled to say something again, stare at the point of your pencil and keep your mouth shut." Same advice applies to a buyer. Gil