doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Way OT -- General George S. Patton Jr.

Thanks 8-bore for clarifying this- those fine Parkers should stay in the family and be passed down to others bearing the proud Patton name- and not "schlepped" around by Messers Chadick, Puglisi, Bedlan or "percentage sold off" by the various auction houses that make a big commission-family comes first!!

Of even more interest to military collectors than GSP Jr's Parkers would be his personal "Patton Saber". Unfortunately, it was not pictured in TPS. It is not in the West Point Museum either as far as I am aware. I'm sure both Fort Knox and the USMA have examples of the Model 1913 Saber, but I don't know whether they are represented as his personal artifacts.

Eightbore, are you referring to the sword he used in the 1912 Olympics?

Patton developed the Calvary model saber, which the Army adopted in 1913-still used today I believe- I read that Patton's sword is in the 3rd. Armored Div. museum at Fort Knox- of interest re: his Parkers- the DHE 20 ga. with the JSP Jr. 1916-I read that his wife Beatrice gave him that fine shotgun when Pershing promoted him to Captain (after the raids in Mexico against the bandit Pancho Villa) and then the two later (1941) encribed CHE small bore skeet models- wonder what other fine shotguns were in the Patton family??

Definately not still in use today. It was a weapon vice a dress saber. One sees them regularly at gun shows and most are in pretty good shape. They have a much more industrial look about them than the typical 19th century models.

The whole idea of the mounted saber charge didn't survive long the observations of trench warfare which began to flow back from the Great War in late 1914. Even among the die hard cavalry proponents, the .45 govt seemed a far better solution to arming a trooper.

My friend Joe Taylor hit a home run with his points. GSP Jr. was a horseman and had aspirations for the M1913 saber that were not to be seen in real warfare. However, Patton's theory that the cutting edge of the saber was less useful than the point was correct and this theory was carried through to later wars, such as Viet Nam when the stabbing knife, the wonderful (and cheap)Gerber Mark 2, was much more popular than the cutting blade of the Randalls. True, you could stab with a Randall 14, but it was so much slicker with the Gerber. As Joe remembers from Viet Nam, the soldier who carried the Gerber probably carried another small weapon that may not have been issued to him.

A buddy of mine was involved in the SOG teams, and a knife collecting neighbor asked him about the "Jimmie Lile" Rambo knife that Stallone used in the movie "First Blood" Like me, his knife of choice was the Randall, he had seen the movie- and replied "yeah, sure, if I could have a boy carrying it for me" I heard rumors of problems with the handles and bolsters on those "Rambo survival knives" have never seen one- Gerbers and SOG knives are the best of the affordable blades today- the Randalls are superb knives but carry the same cachet and price of the pre-64 Model 70's--Patton shot 4 "banditos" while on his horse when he took a platoon armed with 1903's into Mexico to capture Pancho Villa- they came from around a shed and circled Patton, who calmly picked them off on by one with his Colt 1873 Army SA- Gen. Pershing later referred to him as "My Captain Sure-Shot"- one of the banditos he had killed was Villa's "First Lt." and Patton returned to Ft. Bliss with the four dead "banditos" tied to the fenders of the Model T Ford they took-rumor has it that such experience lead to his favoring mobilized and co-ordinated warfare-great history accompanies our best Field Commander ever-I rate another Calvary Officer even higher- but as that came from the "War of Northern Aggression" to mention Nathan Bedford Forrest- he shot 31 Union troopers dead with his pistol from horseback, and had 5 horses shot out from under him during those long bloody years of "brother against brother" and like Patton, believed in mobile striking power- also examplified by USN Naval Adm. Wm. "Haul-Ass" Halsey!

Is romantic the word that I'm looking for??

Patton grew up around another famed Confederate cavalry officer: John Singleton Mosby.

I think the cavalry saber theory has always been that from horseback, it's easier to slash than to stab. Personally, having difficulty staying on one of those 4-legged critters, I couldn't comment on the validity of that theory.

Larry's theory on slashing versus stabbing was correct pre 1913, but Patton's design for the straight bladed Model 1913 saber indicates that stabbing was its main function. Remember, GSP Jr. was not only an accomplished horseman but quite the swordsman also. He not only designed the Model 1913 issue saber, he wrote the 1914 manual for its use, "Saber Exercise". This forty page manual was full of instruction warning against parrying and slashing and emphasizing the saber's main purpose, which was sticking.