doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Post Deleted

P.S.

It's sad stories like this that make us look bad to non-hunters, because in their eyes the guy who did the road shooting was a hunter the same as the person that got killed. It's not guys posting a few pictures of them shooting at a coyote that are going to be the death of our sport.

http://www.kctv5.com/news/14872351/detail.html

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2004/12/07/front/top/news01.txt

Posts like this show the difference between the boys here and the boys in the UK. Had somebody posted a picture of them busting up a fox on any of the English/Scottish/Irish gunning message boards a cheer would have been raised by all involved. They fight the fox there like we should fight the coyote here. They still do crow shooting and trapping in the spring to protect the songbird and gamebird chicks and eggs. When's the last time you heard of somebody doing that in the US?

Their anti-hunting / anti-gun culture is much stronger than ours but it doesn't keep the boys from doing what needs done to preserve their game populations.

Brother Brent, there you go again and have made my point perfectly. You see, you don't know me from Adam; yet you make the following judgement; "Sadly, your comments ..... illustrate the gulf of ignorance that encompasses the hunting community and which is, in large measure, responsible for the bad image that many nonhunters see as representative of those who do hunt". Now I can't, and don't feel bad about about your personal judgement of me as an individual because you have obviously judged me with the same measure you used to judge RMC; but the Holy scriptures caution us to "judge not, lest we be judged". so you see Friend, when you decided to stand in judgement of another; you opened the door for others to make judgements on you.
As to pesonal attacks and negativity, if your insinuation that I have in some way contributed to the ignorance among the hunting community; and further, that my direct actions are "in large measure, responsible for the bad image that many nonhunters see as representative of those who do hunt" is not a negative judgement and personal attack on someone whom you do not know, then what could possibly constitute such action? Like everyone else I know still hunting these days, I do everything I can think to teach good ethics and make a positibe impression while hunting; afterall, we never know who's watching do we? For all I know Iowa could be a lot further into PC land that Georgia; but anyone who is honest will admit that the anti-hunters/anti-gunners cannot, and will not be satiated until all hunting is stopped and we are disarmed. So I ask again Friend, as as hunter have you ever made that split second decision to take a shot that you regretted afterwards? Have you recovered 100% of the birds you feathered over the years? If you honestly have, I tip my hat and bow in humble reverence as you would be the ony hunter I've met in 50 years of hunting who can claim such perfection!

And as regards my "self-righteous" comments, I didn't make one remark that wasn't true and based on observations seen first hand on this forum; and will therefore firmly stand behind every line. My grandmother used to say "a bit dog always holles"; so if the truth stings, let it sting.

As to me personally Brent, I could care less how you or any other readers judge me; I am who I am and too old for criticism to have negligible impact now. And I certainly don't have any animosity towards you, but I do care about this great forum, and the negative impacts personal attacks have had on readers and contributors over the years. This forum was intended to be, and has served as an invaluable asset for the sharing of double gun information among collectors and enthuiasts; and much of the information shared here cannot be found anywhere else. You see Brent, there is this "law" of nature that basically states "for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction"; therefore, whenever a poster feels personally attacked, the reaction will either be another negative response that escalates (as illustrated by this thread), or withdrawal. I know for a fact that there are those with valuable information no longer sharing that resource because they were personally attacked, others who are now reluctant to contribute over concerns that their comments/contributions would be denigrated; and others who have been totally turned off by such negativity in general. If you think not, consider those posters/monikers that were once seen on a regular basis and are now seldom seen. While we certainly have the right to our own opinions, as well as the right to express our differnces; my disagreeing with you, or you disagreeing with me doesn't make either of us right or wrong. And certainly differences of opinion exist in the area of ethics, what is clearly "black" to you may be clearly "white" to another; so the final determining factor is each man must ultimately be accountable to his own conscience while in the field. Personally, I appreciate different opinions; they give me cause to think, but there are a variety of ways in which our differences can be expressed without causing alienation of the individual to whom they are intended. Dave can moderate his forum in any manner he chooses; but if the Golden Rule concept were observed more frequently by some prior to making their post/s, the fellowhip amongst kindred spirits here would be significantly improved.

What is the problem here? Coyotes were in season (year round) and he used a legal firearm and ammo which at that range is adequate to take a coyote. I've killed them with .22 rimfire through .300 Win Mag and plan to continue doing so. My favorite is a .270 Win with light varmit bullets.

Couldn't resist not jumping back in. Not offended in the least with the all the comments and personal attacks. I just sit dumbfounded as proud tales are told of the backyard coyotes. The same coyote that finds refuge and sanctuary in said individuals back yard is the same one that pillages, plunders and kills any critter, wild or domestic that he can in the surrounding area. Returning to the peace and quite of the backyard setting. Fully rested for another nights raid. Question of second guessing to take the shot or not? This coyote in the photos would do exactly the same thing if it were your springer pup wandering out of your back yard and whinning for its master. He would snatch up the dog and be gone in a heartbeat. I've had a coyote spring out of a tree break and grab one of my wifes chickens with me 30 ft. away holding a garden hose and yelling my lungs out. Regretting the hose was not a shotgun? You bet!! Would you at that moment second guess shot placement, contemplate ethical standing in the community, or whether to bake or grill the remains of the perp? The balance of wildlife populations in local or regional areas are screwed up at best. With an ear to the ground and a heart outside the tree hugger community, you can make a sound judgement as to where man should step in. Everyone likes to share stories of wildlife at his feeder or lounging in the back yard, but those actions are not in the best interest of wildlife as a whole. I've taken photos of black bears on a guys second story balcony eating bird seed. But does this bear know the differce between sunflower seed and cocoa puffs on his grandsons breath sitting in the sand box. I doubt it...Sometime we have to get real here. I applaud your love of critters in the yard and would not challenge you one bit for your actions or beliefs. You don't live in my shoes and I don't live in yours, so lets draw the line in the sand and let it be. You stay in your yard and I'll stay in mine. Randy

topgun,
How strange you think I should worry about being judged. I don't.

But even stranger, that you should call me "Friend" since you do not know me.

Be that as it may, you are, indeed, a prime example of problem. How else do I state that?

I care a great deal about hunting. Enough that this dialog makes me worry for its future a good deal more than I already was.

Brent

I too have a home in northern Michigan. Ten years ago if I had read this thread I may have said, poor yote. But now they are everywhere, mill around my back yard and the whole family has to be on full alert when mommas little pooch has to go out to piddle. They are BOLD. The shotgun is at the ready in the kitchen. So I could never judge in a negative light my man Randy. I think we are mixing up killing an animal for shits and giggles vs. an animal that might kill his dog, sons baby, or in general screw up his way of life. I may not have put any pics on the net, but DAMN, it gave us old lady esque a lot to talk about.

Sounds to me like you're a guy worried about being judged. You're just more worried about being judged by your enemies then by your friends.

Read again. I'm worried about hunters as a group being judged.

I going to try a diffrent approach here and see if we can get this resolved.
I,for one, don't see anything wrong with killing coyotes and support doing whatever is necessary to try and keep the population in check and I think the vast majority of the membership here feels the same way.
The real issue here at least as I see it is posting the shooting pictures at the beginning of this thread on a public forum. Many of us have hunted long enough to know that the perfect shot isn't always made. How many of you have had to spend hours trailing a poorly hit and now wounded deer?
I talked some guys on another forum into NOT shooting up thousands of bottles they had found in an old barn. This to me is just the kind of thing antis are looking for to paint all of us a slob hunters.
My point is: Don't give the antis this type of ammunition to use against us hunters.
Nuff said
Jim

Any picture of any of us with a gun and a dead animal is ammunition for the anti-hunting / anti-gun groups. The animal was shot and killed so to them it suffered and we're monsters. If that's the worry then better stop posting pics of you and your dog after a day on the pheasant preserve. Will fear of those creeps keep me from posting some pictures on this forum of my days afield? Nope


Destry

P.S. to Brent: You sound just like one of these Michigan deer hunters that let the PETA folks convince them that doves were song birds. I can't tell you how many gun owning "sportsmen" in this state I heard say they weren't for the dove season and that they were going to vote against it. And you know what, it got defeated.

Reminds me of the ol' Ben Franklin saying, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately".