doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Parker A-! Special "Sold Again?"" Wow!!

Does the fact that Charles Parker made coffee grinders in any way detract from the guns he built? If you say "no", then go talk to Mr. Brewster.

Even today, it takes a very astute Lefever collector to really know what went out the door under the Lefever name. Dan Lefever might have understood how to make a gun but it takes more than that to shine.

It's like the difference between John Daly and Tiger Woods - they both can hit a golf ball but only Tiger keeps it all together. He's doing pushups and training while John is boozing and eating.
Who points to John Daly as the consummate golfer?

John Daly is not manufacturing or building a product that can be evaluated for quality, durability, or engineering acceptability a hundred years down the road. This gun business is not "like the difference between John Daly and Tiger Woods". Ansley Fox may be considered the John Daly versus Tony Galazan who may be considered the Tiger Woods of the gun world. Both have manufactured consumer products that customers have thought were worth six figure prices. The products of both manufacturers will be highly respected a hundred years from now. It just isn't about financial success, it's about the product.

You're right - it has little to do with financial success, indeed it is about the product. But the product only matter if it reaches the market. You need enough success to keep your doors open.

That's where Lefever fell short. Parker 'touched all the bases'; Lefever made it to second base then fell down. If it took coffee grinders to make that happen, so be it.

The story I got from the CA source said it was an original Invincible.
bill

Courtesy of cc/dt

Can you explain what gun David's pictures portray? When was the California Invincible found? That would be the fourth Invincible to surface, correct? The location of the gun discussed in Peter Johnson's 1961 book (#200,000) was not generally known at the time, but it was known to the owner and his friends. It was not "lost" as Peter Johnson implied. It is now on public display.

Thanks to Revdocdrew for posting 2 of the "Several" Photos I shot at "Julias Auction Emporium" Prior to the Record breaking Auction, several weeks later. Capt. James Fender,presently serving his Country in Iraq, and sending me"Jims News Update's from the Front"...was the 'Cameraman' on this occasion,we have well over 50 Photos of the "Princely Parker in Pieces"My 'Caption' for the 1st pic is "Looking for the Romanoff Eagle".....Photo #2...I had heard rumors of the Original Stock being found in Conn. in of all places, the bottom draw of an elderly Widows underware draw'wrapped-up in some Victorian'Unmentionables'!! It arrived on my doorstep in a Plain Brown-Wrapper'(Not unusual in this Old-Guns Game!)Vol.18, Issue One, Spring 20007 Double Gun Journal, by James Fender, Related the story (Up to that time)'Thats the Issue with the "Center-Fold"..cc/dt

The #200000 big 12-gauge Invincible, the A.C. Middleton 16-gauge Invincible (#230329) and the Dr. Lyman 12-gauge Invincible were eventually all owned by the late magazine publisher from California, Mr. Petersen. He had/has them all on display along with several other Parker Bros. doubles at the National Firearms Museum at NRA Headquarters in Northern Virginia. Mr. Petersen allowed the NRA to bring the Invincibles up to Sandanona for the Gold Medal Concours at The Vintage Cup a few years back. Wouldn't let us load them up and take then out on the course though!!

In the American marketplace for double guns costing over $1000, L.C. Smith (Hunter Arms Co.) beat the Devil out of the Brothers P. with their 30 gold encrusted DeLuxe Grades sold to the three Invincibles. Even the struggling D.M. Lefever companies in their various incarnations managed to pump out at least three Uncle Dan Grades in an earlier time.

For whatever my opinion may be worth (nothing); the one advantage the Parker gun had over all their competitors was the fact that they could sell and market their gun along with all the myriad hardware items they produced. This allowed them more dollars to advertise the gun, ample opportunity to promote the gun to their hardware customers (where most guns were being sold in this era); and the gun was likely carried as a "lost leader" longer than it should have because of the fact that their excellent salesmen, along with the advertising dollars advantage they ejoyed over the competition, had done such a superb job of promoting the gun. Parkers are great guns, but so are the LeFevers; and it's also a well established fact that both the Parker and LeFever designs were changed and improved many times over their years of production. In my worthless opinion, the LeFever Optimus grade was probably the best value (buy) at $400 than any of the other period high-grade competition in terms of quality and asthetics for the price.
By the way, although I have no knowledge of a new Invincible discovery in California, I did see "Invincible" # 200001 (a number used for a Trojen gun) on a dealer's table over the weekend. The serial number was beautifully inlayed in gold on the trigger guard strap, as was the classic Invincible chicken on the floor plate. I just smiled when I opened the gun to look for the actual serial number stamped on the lug, number 146???; and laid her down.

I think Zutz nailed it with Parkers--overly complex action, unhardened and soft parts reports from many gunsmiths, amateur engraving, more often than not.

Hey, the 1912 Olympic trap shoot was won by a bloke with a Lefever, in Merry England, of all places. Where were Parker, Boss, Purdey, et all on that day?
Best,
Ted