doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rust Bluing ,I have a question.

keith, I'd be glad to provide you with a copy of the new book.
sdh@montana dot net

Steve, That will work for me, and having read your other book, I'll give you a plug and tell anyone else interested in doubles and/or gunsmithing that I'm sure it will be money well spent. Keith

Years ago every machine shop had a vat which contained a copper sulfate solution. Parts need to have cut lines, hole centers etc laid out on them were first dipped into this solution & received a light "Flash Plate" of copper. When the lines were then scribed on they were much more visable."Layout Ink" which is either brushed or sprayed on has now replaced the copper sulfate solutions. Early "Touch-Up" blues were of a two part nature, the first being a copper sulfate solution which was swabbed on until a good coat was obtained. The second part containing ammonium sulfide was then painted onto the copper & produced "Black Copper Sulfide". The color by this process was produced only in the copper coating, which was not particularly strongly adhereing & wore away quite easily, thus not generally very satisfactory.
Later "Touch-up" (cold) blues are of a one part process & as I recall have Selenium as their base ingredient. The color they produce is a form of oxide produced in the bbl steel itself & while it may not be as strongly adherent as regular slow rust blue it is much more durable than that produced in the copper plating. There is an odor in applying these blues but I don't really believe it has anything to do with Copper Sulfate.
Note the Copper sulfate ingredient Steve mentioned is in very small quantities for the purpose of seeing results on application & in this quantity does not much impede the rusting of the iron/steel beneath it & is likely for the most part removed in the "Scratching Off". For the most part this is either quoted or "Mis-Quoted" from Angier, I'm not a chemist. It is noted that throughout his book Copper Sulfate is found in the majority of formulas listed "Specifically" as applicable for Twist Bbls.

OK guys.I spent My saturday working on a rusting protect.here is what i got.The short trigger gaurd was done a week ago with brownell classic rust blueing.It was polished to 320 grit.Then cleaned.The part was heated up and them the rust was applied.It was then place in my hot box that has a temp of 85 degrees and 90% hum..the part was left in for 3 hours and then boiled for 20 minutes.it was then carded with a wire wheel at 1000 rpm's..the part got five coats with the same procedure.
The long tag was done today.It was polished to 400 grit.Then it was cleaned.Then i heated the part and applied PILKINGTON CLASSIC AMERICAN RUST BLUE.The part was placed in the heat box and left for 2 hours(same temp and hum. as above.).Then removed boiled and carded.(carded at 1000 rpm's.)I applied two coats in this manner.Then on the third,fourth,and fifth.I cut the time back that the part stayed in the hot box to one hour each time.I also changed my rpm's of my wheel to 1900 rpm's.Boiled and carded same as before.
both parts were oiled after the last carding.
The pictures are the final results.The finish on the long tang is much nicer,but i didnt get the high sheen that i wanted.What can i do to get it.Should i start cutting the rust bluing solution.If i do dulute the agent i will have to increase the rust time right?What do you guys think.thanks Pawnbroker.

Don't heat the part and then apply the solution, if you are cold rust blueing. Apply the soln. while the part is room temp and then into the damp box or let it rust in the atmosphere of the room. I think that is what is etching the base metal.
After each coat is carded, let the part cool again to room temp, apply a light coating of the soln. and let it rust again.
Heating the part and then immediately applying the soln is how hot rust blueing is done. That coating w/a proper soln. should immediately produce a rust coating and then back into the boiling water to turn the color.

short rustings with the acid applied at room temp. You actually do not want to be able see the rust forming, if you do see it the rust is likely aggressive enough to alter your finish. I do LOTS of very short passes, say 10-15 minutes each after my first rusting, which is about 1 hour in duration. I also hand card, but that is just my preference.
Steve

PB, I can't respond to internet photos 'cause I can't really see what's what.
First, most would be pleased with your first attempt and your second t-guard would look spectacular to many. I understand that your looking for a higher degree.

You need to determine when the metal is being acid etched beyond coloring. The slight frosting of the metal is probably happening during the time in the damp box. There is no perfect prescription; I determine when to card by visual inspection. It is all timing, temperature, humidity and RPM's, but seeing what transformation is taking place is more important than following strict proceedure.

If you are doing a hot, or Express application, you should boil and card immediately after application and be able to get a very shiny finish.
If you are doing a slow, cold rusting, the etch is happening in the box because it is rusting too long.

Hope you find this helpful. Some things are very difficult to teach via the written word, even with photos. I've been discussing rust bluing with some of the best for a couple of decades and my personal experience was always the most important, and last word.

PB,
Looks to me that you're doing a great job. Particularly the long tang.

You've probably already gone past this, but my input is that the short trigger guard needed more work with the lower grades of sandpaper, to take down the fine pits. I used about 4 sandpaper grit levels and then finished with Norton 3X 320 grit abrasive foam pads. The key for me was getting all the fine pits out with the lower grits before I went to the next finer.

I carded with a hand brush from Brownells since I don't have anything to drive a wheel. I used Brownells Classic Rust blue.

Hopefully the image posts. It is a military trigger guard that I filed for a Swedish Mauser. Best of luck.