doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com So what gage is this?

You guys were very helpful with my 8ga question, I thought I would pose this one.
I have this German gun that has a bore diameter of 0.685" and a chamber of 0.76" tapering to 0.75" with a chamber length of 2.5".
It didn't match up to the chart posted on my earlier thread.
I thought it might be a 14ga, but the brass shells I have don't fit. So what do you guys think it is?
Thanks,
Chris

Chris:

I take it there isn't a gauge stamp? Strickly by the numbers and using 708lb for lead with maybe some gravity units, the 0.685" would be 14.5 bore. The English Proof Act of 1868 give 14 bore at 0.680", 0.690" and 0.693" and I'll assume the Germans followed suit. The 1887 rules gives 0.685" as 15/1. About how old is it?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Chris,
I just measured one of my winchester western 14 G shells at .708. Do you think that .06" chamber tolerance is norm?
Bob Jurewicz

Raimey,
This gun was made before the Germans required a proof test. I'm not sure when that date was. There is no gage markings on the barrels.
Bob,
I'm not sure what 14ga shell I have, a or b, but I know it didn't fit. I'm not sure where that shell is at the moment. I'll look for it. I sure don't know what the tolerance amount would be.
Chris

Chris:

So you have a 14 bore tube w/ a 11 bore chamber. Quite a stretch. What's the tally on the number of 14 bore German doubles and what is the max thickness on 16 bore brass cartridges? Another guess would be paper 14 gauge. I don't know if the Germans used them, but it sounds like a Concentrator or Eley's Universal Cartridge without the wire which just fit the bore of the gun and then maybe lengthened. Are there forcing cones present and is it a smooth transition?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Nominal bore dias for 14 & 15 ga's respectfully are .693" & .677". Small end of a 16ga shell is a nominal .732" (.662" bore + .070") Using the same standard a 14ga should be close to .763" or the small end should just about start into the large end of this chamber. I suggest you double check that .708" measurement as that would make the 14 ga smaller than a 16ga. That measurement sounds like that of an 18ga which has a bore dia of .637".

I believe the proof houses starting operating April 1, 1893. I could be mistaken..

Pete

Wow. Miller is right did't think. .708 is what my Winchester Xpert N-14's measure. But, I wonder what they are????
Bob Jurewicz

What is the difference between a 14a and a 14b? Was there such a thing as a 15 ga?
Chris

In the early days brass shells were available in two sizes for at least some of the gauges. The A sizes were made to fit standard chamber dimensions of "Paper Shell" chambered guns. The B sizes were for a gun having a smaller chamber designed for use of the brass shells in a standard size bore. Some guns were also built with the intention of using the A brass shells & had the bores oversize to accomadate the larger wads. I do not have dimensions for a 14B chamber but would think it smaller than the given dimensions.
I do not know if there was ever a "15GA" shell per say or not, however the British proof charts included all sizes from 1 to 50 inclusive with letter sizes above going up to 2.00" dia in 1/16" steps as I recall & below 50ga in odd ball sizes carried to two decimal places giving .010" increments from .45cal (51.05ga) down to .30cal (172.28ga).
The German proof law was "Passed" in 1891. It then took a while to implement it & don't recall exact date, but think Pete probably has it nailed. That sounds about right. In the interium guns completed & ready to sell were given a Crown over V mark indicating they had been approved to sell but were "Un-Proved". The tables I have seen of German sizes followed the British exactly.