doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rust Bluing ,I have a question.

First bluing I ever tried to do was "Hot Rust" using the old Herter's "Belgian Blue" formula. Once I tried cold rust, I never did another Hot one.

Yes Mark Lees solution for hot rust blue works well. The older Belgian Blue solution works well too but can easily leave you with a matted finish as it's abit more aggressive. Plus the merc in it isn't something I want in the area. The 'new' stuff has it too I think from the way it plates out on a piece of hot brass, copper, or your nice gold inlays!
On larger parts like the barrels. let the water heat up the part instead of using a heat source like a torch. Uneven heating from a torch, will get the surface too hot especially in the tin spots and cause the solution to burn and sizzle. That will give you an etched patchy look. Lay on the solution with clean OOOO steel wool for the first couple of times helps even out the layers. If the part becomes too cold to almost immediately dry the solution as it's applied, put the part back in the tank and let it reheat. Add another coat right on top of the first without carding, but use the steel wool to apply. Work on the thinner parts first obviously. Rifle barrels can be coated, boiled, carded and recoated without needing to be reheated before that coating if you work fast enough. A fine steel brush wheel, not knotted up or twisted is needed. Do not press too hard in carding as even a very very fine wheel can start to produce a matted surface on the barrels as you're carding. You want it to brush the surface, not change the look of the polish under the blue. Brighter the polish and desired blue,,finer and less pressure on the wheel.
Some solutions just won't work with some barrel steels (especially newer modern steels) If you don't get blue black on the first coat (and everything else is right, temp, clean, correct water, etc). Try another solution at that point as extra coats won't cover a bad first one.

There are some good tips here: shorter rusting period, finer polish and 'express' or hot application. But also higher carding wheel speed will add to the luster, with a very light touch. (I use as hot a mix as possible so I can get in 3-5 coats per day, 2 hours in the box max after warm-up.)
I use a slow speed for the first couple of coats, then increase rpm's after I have a good base coats.
Anyone can turn gun metal blue/black. Getting a really superior deeply colored finish without a matte surface is the achievement. There are a hundred tips, techniques and anomolies if you've been doing it a couple of decades.
Best,
Steve

Mr. Hughes, When you say you use "as hot a mix as posible", are you saying you actually heat your rusting solution or does "hot" refer to bite or concentration? Thanks, Keith

keith, by 'hot' I mean strong, potent, start rusting before you turn around twice.
Sorry for the confusion.
This photo is one of the above two barrel set, finished. Deep, dark blue/black with a distinct sheen or lustre.

Mr. Hughes, Thanks for the clarification. I have your book on gunsmithing double shotguns and refer to it often. A few months ago, in the thread on filling a solder gap between barrels and ribs at the muzzle of a Fox, I imagined you cringing at the suggestions to fill the gap with J-B Weld. Your suggestion to flatten a lead .22 bullet and peen in a piece reminded me of my Dad showing me how to repair a cracked solder joint on the radiator of my first car. He peened the solder on both sides of the leak with a center punch and it held perfectly even under pressure. With the quality of your work, I'm sure you have no shortage of clients, so it's doubly nice of you to take the time to share your knowledge with us here. Keith

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There are some indications that certain solutions work better if heated while being used. I've got a couple of older recipes somewhere that demand that the solution be put into a glass container and hung from the side of the tank into the boiling water to keep it hot. I've never found a need to do that but it seems at a quess that the solution would act more aggresive and the other point is that it's water content would be constantly evaporating during the process making it stronger. Maybe that's why it supposedly works so well!
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As a side note,,always, always wear eye protection. There's lots that can go wrong very quickly with these hot and corrosive chemicals and boiling water. One of the noted gunsmiths/barrel makers of the early 20th Century lost an eye to such an accident while hot rust blueing.

If I may add something as well that might be of interest to all here,...in the past, I had all kinds of witches brews made up, some from Angier's book, one came out of Piotti in Italy,.. also tried some that were given to me by Oscar Gaddy,... all gave pretty good results but the thought of working with all that mercuric stuff sure didn't appeal to me very much any more,...so in a bid to work in a safer environment and live a bit longer so I can enjoy the shooting sports in my later years,...I decided to settle for a product that at the time I thought might not be as good but was at least not going to kill me in the long run

I have for years now been using nothing but Laurel Mountain Brown for all my rust bluing and browning work,...I like the fact that it is "supposedly" non toxic,...I can also say that once one learns to manipulate it's strength (through dilution) and get control over the entire rusting process a complete range of finishes can be achieved with fantastic results,.....I also think that a hygrometer would be a good investment and contrary to what has been stated before, I find that prepping to a higher degree of finish is not always a waste of time

If you polish to a mirror finish and you're careful with the application of the rusting solution and time allowed to rust on,.....you wont get a mirror blue but you can get pretty close,....

CJ

Although I don't polish past 400 grit, when I toured the Flli Rizzini shop their barrels had a very high polish, and the firms rust bluing is nearly translucent. They use the same basic slow rust bluing methods I do. I did not see them carding or what they carded with. Stefano was a bit vague about specific tasks.

Kutter- it's normal to put the vial of solution in the boil tank when express, or hot rust bluing. Helps it dry faster.

CJ- I have used Laurel Mt in the past and found it quite effective. I do appreciate the non-toxic. Many of the guys I know use Gun Goddess from Jim Bair in Kalispell.
(Did the book arrive alright?)

keith-I did cringe at the JB, but I'm sure some cringed at the .22 bullet method!?!? btw, it's Steve.

Hi Steven

The book's not here yet,....maybe tomorrow!
The Piotti formula I had is very symilar to the one I got from Oscar..mercuric chloride, ferric chloride and other nasties, they apparently let the mixed batches of the stuff age,..the longer the better,use a sea sponge to apply it, the rustings are never more than 3-4 hours and they card by hand with fine steel wool, the finish has a high luster if one didn't know better it could pass for hot blue,...I've tried and have gotten close but not quite

The pictures are abit grainy but the Holland came ot better than the A&N

CJ