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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
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I have an EE Lefever, SN 73,101, with barrels clearly marked as Krupp bbls, in English on either side of the rib on top of the barrels, and in German on the underside. The underside is also marked LLH for L. Lochet-Habran. Behind the LLH, just ahead of the flats, there is a number 5 on the underside of both barrels. Does anyone know why this set of barrels has the marking of both a German (Krupp) and a Belgian (LLH) barrel maker? They both couldn't have made the same set of barrels. Other than the LLH, the gun has all the characteristics and markings of a Syracuse Lefever and no markings or indications of Ithaca. Any insights into these markings would be appreciated. Thanks. Rich
Rich
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,941 Likes: 19
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,941 Likes: 19 |
We need ole Russ for this one!He would know! Bobby
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651 |
Best guess is that LLH supplied the barrels and got them from Krupp. I suspect it was a special order or maybe LLH was the jobber/agent for the barrel blanks.
Lefever seems to have been willing to make or supply almost anything to make the buyer happy. He certainly stocked and engraved his guns as well as any other maker. No Henry Ford any shade of Black attitude here. Makes Lefevers a real interesting treat to look at some times as you never know what you may see. I have a G grade with one of the fanciest stocks that I have and it would be happy on one of his very highest grades. And the G grade was the most common, lowest grade for years until the H, I and DS were brought out. The stock blank would cost more today than the gun. Burl figure with very nice color.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
Not to start a war, again, but I do not believe that Krupp ever made a barrel for shotguns or rifles. Krupp supplied the steel (tubes) to barrel makers.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,752 |
Friends:
Mike has it. Krupp was a steel maker and supplied tubes or blanks. LLH made barrels. Two different places in the supply chain.
Regards
GKT
Texas Declaration of Independence 1836 -The Indictment against the dictatorship, Para.16:"It has demanded us to deliver up our arms, which are essential to our defence, the rightful property of freemen, and formidable only to tyrannical governments."
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,948 Likes: 144
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,948 Likes: 144 |
How about some pictures. Otherwise we may have to do the the KBM $$$ trick!
Last edited by Researcher; 11/09/06 12:41 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 532 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 532 Likes: 1 |
Thanks for the feedback. Researcher, How do I post pictures? I could email pictures, but don't know what the procedure is for posting them. What's the KBM $$$ trick?
Rich
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,403 Likes: 17 |
Mike may be correct BUT I think we need more corroborating data. I have(and have seen lots of) barrels marked Krupp and barrels marked LLH but never on the same barrel.
Walter c. Snyder
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
This is tangential to the question but I'd like to know why "Krupp, Essen" is always prominent and clear on early Fox barrels such as those of my 1911 BE. Much is made of reduction of exterior by striking (drawfiling)but these stamps are always sharp and clear. Did Krupp have enuf clout to force client gunmakers to "restamp" finished barrels or did the mark exist on the rough billet and survive the barrel-making process?
jack
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651 |
Rabbit
Krupp made steel but I doubt that they made anyone keep the name on the gun. I suspect it was the other way around. Maybe Krupp was such a "brand name" that it was restruck after the barrel was filed. Like Whitworth barrels were considered the top of the line for years Krupp enjoyed a well earned reputation as a premium steel for many years.
Easy to have a die made to re-apply the Krupp steel name. If that is the case a few Krupp might have been "joeblow" steels and just re-struck as Krupp. Never miss a sale even if you have to do a little creative stamping. Once again I wish these guns could talk and tell us where and what they have been through and what they have seen over the years.
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