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Sidelock
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Originally Posted By: Rocketman

Bentley and Playfair.


Didn't Webley make their screw grip box locks ?

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add Hollis as he was the maker for Bentley and playfair. Also Tranter built actions and used BSA tubes. BSA only built one shotgun the boxlock that Wincherster used the barrel design from.

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Did Bentley and Playfair make guns themselves?


John McCain is my war hero.
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Sidelock
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Also, did Holland & Holland make guns themselves before the war?


John McCain is my war hero.
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Bentley and Playfair made mostly guns for others. Same story when they amalgamated with Hollis. Some Hollis , Bentley and Playfair guns , so marked, were as good as any, too. I think you can come up with a list of name makers, and many of them would get their guns from HB&P. Their 1911 catalog lists their business as makers for the trade. They had an extensive plant in Birmingham.

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Originally Posted By: Joe Wood
Also, did Holland & Holland make guns themselves before the war?


Holland's didn't have a factory until 1893. Even after that some of the models they sold continued to be built by others. Their boxlocks, especially their double rifles, were built by Webley & Scott until very late in the game.

Just looking at your revised list in your original post, I guess it depends. Are you looking for those that made all of what they sold, or just some?

Almost all of the London makers sold guns under their own name that were built by others. Churchill sourced a lot of guns from Birmingham. Lang also had a long tradition of buying guns from the trade. Lang was forced into receivership and taken over by T. W. and H. J. Webley in 1898, due to bills from Webley for guns that they had sold but could not pay. Lang was owned by the Webleys until the company was sold in 1925 and, during that time, a lot of Lang's output were Webley products, as might be expected. This continued even after the sale. Percival's pair of Lang .450 No. 2s (sold at Bonham's last year) was bought in from, and finished by, Webley in 1927. I have a Lang boxlock double rifle in my database, Webley serial number 13735, that Lang sold in 1952. Likewise Woodward sold a few Webley boxlocks.


"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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The important thing is, the real maker's produced more crap than best guns. One would only have to look to Greener, W&C Scott and Westley. I would put their ratio of rough guns to best at 600:1 more or less eh!
When craps your bag - its hard for pappa to have a brand new bag.

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Originally Posted By: Joe Wood
One thing I'd like to see is a list of genuine makers in the 1890 to 1940 period. Let's exempt the barrel forgings but they had to make the actions.


By this definition who would still be on the list today?

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Sidelock
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Lowell show us some "crap" made by Greener...W&C Scott or Westley.

I have a sneaking suspicion yOu're one of those guys that fell for a "named" Belgium gun.

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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: jack maloney
Add to the London genuine gunmaker list: Cogswell & Harrison

I thought W&C Scott made their guns ?

Nope - most Cogswell & Harrison sidelocks and boxlocks were built at their own works in London. Although - like almost all UK gunmakers - they farmed out a few to Birmingham.


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