doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The New Parker Gun

Soooo, Tony is building reproduction Model 21's, Fox's, and Parkers. Then why are people paying such a high price for these Repro's?

I think Dave is just getting warmed up. He and most Parker researchers know that Remington considered buying Fox shotguns in the forties, remarking them Parker, and selling them as such, without barfing. Yup, guys are paying the big buck for Tony's guns and are very happy about it. Tony, contrary to what has been suggested by a poster, has made Model 21s marked with Winchester's name, and he charged more for them. He must have some rights to use the W name. As a final point, I think anyone who wanted to "avoid the middle man" on the AAHE Parker's pricing need only to wave his checkbook in front of either Remington or Galazan and the price will come tumbling down. Just my suspicion, of course.

I think Greg would have a different view of the Rem/CSM Parker "repro" if his father had bought one, enjoyed hunting it, and then passed it along to him. ...But I could be wrong. c'mon Greg, say sumptin nice...about anything. You pick it.

I never agree with GregSY about anything and I thought his comment imagistically superlative. Those were the good old days and of course so are these.

jack

Wow while I was a sleep this post took off. Now you are all a sleep. Not sure if any of you care what my opinion is but here it is anyways

GregSY,
I agree one could do a lot more with $49,000.00 however people don't bat an eye when someone pays that for a car. I think and I could be wrong that people that have $49,000.00 for a shotgun, also have money for charities, nice cars, vacations, ect. Do you get my point? Its not all they can afford.

Without naming names I have met and shot with a very well to do man that some of you I am very sure know. He is a self made man, he is from a time when men worked hard and tried to do better by working hard. He owns guns way above $49,000.00. I have handled one of them. I envy him and admire him for his drive and determination. He is a nice man and has always been friendly to me. At the same time I know he donates a lot of money to good causes. I know he takes care of his family. So my point is when you have that type of money everything is taken care of and you can not only afford to pay those prices but you can justify the purchess as well.

I also believe that the Remington Parkers, CSMC Model 21's, and CSMC A.H. Fox guns do not need to be called reproductions. In an indirect way they are Reproductions yes. However Mr. Galazan and Remington do own some sort of rights. I am not a lawyer and don't intend to make you think I know something I do not. But they do own something that gives them a legal right to produce these guns. I mis-spoke Dick_dup1, my mistake the "CSMC Model 21". However like another poster on here added for a fee you can have the Winchester name added to the gun.

These guns are not manufactured the way the originals were that is a fact. You think the prices are high now? Imagine if Mr. Galazan had to pay all those man hours of labor without all the CNC machines? These guns are fine well built guns to the original specs. I don't know if this is the case or not but the materials used maybe of better quality now too.

As for the era of the originals there is no doubt once so ever they were made by men that worked hard, that had skills that are hard to come by now. It was a different time and a different mentality. I wish I was alive during those days. Men were Men then. Kids got a good smack when they were out of line. Kids could play outside safely and walk to school. Kids didn't sit infront of a TV playing video games. Its sad but those days are long gone. The new Model 21's, Fox, Parkers, and ICD's are not ever going to just replace the original guns. What they will do is carry on the tradition. My hats off to everyone trying to make carring the tradition on happen.

1m89,
I believe that, technically, at least the CSM Fox guns are not built to original specs. According to Tony Galazan himself, he stated that all the gauges of Fox had to be totally re-engineered top to bottom. Yes, they retain some of the characteristic shapes and proportions of the originals, but they are basically all new. Also, remember, there were never any 28ga or 410 Fox guns. I think the 21's were also re-engineered in some gauge/frame combinations.

Ok I mis-spoke again, I am sorry. I can admit when I am wrong.Bottomline in my opinion is he is trying to continue on a great American legacy. I am sure that Fox, Parker, ect would have continued to evolve their product line. I also believe they too would have been forced away from the indepth hand work and moved to machines. I am not a machinist but I do know the Swiss machines out there these days can do just about anything. Its cheaper to feed, house, and care for a machine then it is a person. I don't know Mr. Galazan, but I hope to meet him one day. I am very thankful that a man like him cared enough to start his company and continue on with some great old names and his own new guns. My hat is off to him.

"I think anyone who wanted to "avoid the middle man" on the AAHE Parker's pricing need only to wave his checkbook in front of either Remington or Galazan and the price will come tumbling down. Just my suspicion, of course."
I can't vouch for Remington as I haven't tried to order a Parker nor do I want to but CSMC prices are what you see on the web-site, no gimmicks, no marketing, no nothing, just straight honest business dealings.

Model 21, Fox, Parker made by CSMC, call them what you want, it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that individuals that recognize quality and want a bespoke shotgun are having CSMC make them. I have owned a number of Winchester 21's and own one of the CSMC 'Baby' frame 28 gauge Model 21's, a gun Winchester never made in a small frame. Frannkly, cosmetically its as nice as any Win 21 i have ever had in my hands and much lighter. Regardless of how they are engineered and manufactured, the judgement of those who want such shotguns is in and they are voting with thier $$'s.
Tony took over the remaining production of USRAC Winchester Model 21's in the early 1990's and used up the remaining barrel stocks and other parts resulting in some CSMC manufactured Winchester Model 21's. I don't know of any Winchester branded Model 21's being produced today. I have talked with Tony and Olin about this and its just not worth the extra cost to have Winchester on the gun. Olin licenses tha Winchester name to FN which owns Browning and produces the current Winchester firearms. Winchester ceased to exist in 1983 when Olin sold the Winchester factory to USRAC and licensed the Winchester name to USRAC. USRAC ceased to exist a year or two ago. So it's academic and you can discuss it until the 'cows come home' but there haven't been any true Winchester Model 21's since 1983 but there are still Model 21 shotguns available as good or better than any ever manufactured. The old engravers are gone, new ones are in thier place, so if you want to argue cosmetics go ahead, its irrelevant.
The Fox's CSMC is turning out are spectacular and I have one on order. I really don't care what anyone calls them, it will be a Fox to me and to my specifications.
I haven't had one of the CSMC Parkers in my hands but based on the CSMC Galazan sidelock sxs's and ou/u's I have handled I have no doubt, it is a fine shotgun.-Dick

Dick,

I hope that your post was not aimed at me. I am with you that CSMC is producing a fine shotgun be it whatever name in their line up you choose.

I just read that Winchester is coming back to America, I want to say South Carolina???? Don't qoute me on that. I know not to make 21's. But I think thats a good move on the company's part.

Dick,

Can you clearify what you mean when you said that all one needs to do is wave their checkbook infront of them and the price will come tumbling down? Honestly I can't see how it could go that much lower. There has to be a load of man hours in those AAHE's. They are beautiful guns for sure.