doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "Not In-House" British gunmakers.

...kinda like a sandwich with meat and meat byproducts.

Just read "21st century gunmakers....." in The Shooting Gazette October 2004 issue.

Dave Malys.When I was a "Stocker" at Irongate Wharf,Paddington,Purdey's of the 1950s ..1964. A Standard Game-Gun, DB Triggers,Small Rose&Scroll Engr. was 600 to 650 hrs.That of course was when Gunmakers still knew how to "Push a 14" Flat Bastard" use a 18 tpi.in the hacksaw,Pull your Guts Out with a 12' Draw-Knife,Chequer with hand-made tools and the Finishers knew how to use the "HL" Slacum.....Now, with CNC,and all the labor saving machines,and "HiTech" Finishes. RGS engraving machines..Hoenig Standing with his 'Spindles Spinning"'Gotta be 50% of the Hours..???(I would like to be corrected.....) cc/dt

It would appear that with technology now possibly/probably performing a significant portion of the work prior to the fine hand finishing, hourly savings of this magnitude might indeed be possible. Combine that with the possible outsourcing of some components to extremely inexpensive labor rate areas, and the cost savings in both hours and hourly rates reflected in the final product could produce an extremely wide cost of manufacturing to selling price gap as compared to the time period of your involvment there.

Crossedchisles,

Why the long delivery time then ? just to keep the myth ?

HM

Crossed chissels is right that many modern time-saving practices have changed the nature of some of the wrk inolved and reduced man-hours. I think this has implications for the rpair of odd models from old 'non-standard' guns in the future. Old gunmakers can make parts from scratch - soem of those skills are being reduced and may be lost.

However, reading this thread you would think London gumaking has vanished and that the big firms are selling foriegn made junk as 'best' London output

Perhaps some wish it to be so - out of whateever devilment and petty jealousy that may drive them but there is NO evidence that this is so. In fact it is not so.

British gunmakers are still producing better guns than any other gunmakers if a well-made, well designed and superlative quality gun make from the best materials available is what you want. You pay accordingly.

So Asprey or William Evans may have had a gun action filed up by Gary Hibbert, barreled by Bill Blacker and stocked by David Becker (all time-served London trained gunsmiths of the highest order) - that is not an indication that they would as happily have it done by Hoo-Flung Dung in Beijing!

Some London firms are offering cheaper grade guns in the £20,000 - £30,000 range in the same way that they offered Birmingham made and london finished 'B' 'C' and 'D' grade guns in the past. These are not made entirely in-house and that keeps costs down - and sale price lower.

The latter is a risky strategy because the lazy minded or trouble-making bore will suggest that because a cheaper gun is offered, then all their 'best' output is tainted. It is not so but you can't stop the gossip.

The London gun trade goes on much as before and you stll get a better gun out of London than out of anywhere else. I know Italian stuff looks nice but they are still pretty immitations of Lndon work and they do not 'shoot' as well, nor do the shapes (ofthe stocks in particular)work so well.

One plus one does not equal five and the fact that some London makers put some of their work out to the London trade does not mean that suddenly London gunmaking has fallen to bits and everyting is now made from cheese in Turkey! Rant over.

Wow, Dig, that was a pretty good one!! But, someday, you gotta quit sugar coating it and tell us how you really feel.

I read an article in The Field or Shooting Gazette that it takes 700 hours of man labor to turn out H&H 'Royal' SLE. Gee, they must be starting out with big walnut tree in back yard and bucket of ore from Northern Sweden!

I saw a Hoo-Flung Dung on Gun Broker...but it had Japanese proofs.

The continuing refrain of the board is to buy the gun not the name. It probably does require 700 hours to build the gun from a bucket of ore to red velure presentations and all that full-colour advertising in quality publications around the world.

My guess is the prestigious maker's profit is many times more than the wages and profits of all the workers and businesses along the way. I don't know why there are suggestions of excessive profit-making. Those who have the money buy the name.

Those who don't, complain.

No one here is knocking British bests---only the price. But consider the value we place on our old American hardware store guns: the extraordinary premium on their originality and higher grades. Who's complaining?