doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Baited Breath, Waiting for "Digs" Up-Date.

Frankly, there is no reason why a second proof load should destruct a barrel when the first one did not even cause a Plastic Deformation. Now perhaps they do not test for plastic deformation until AFTER the second firing. On the other hand, if the first firing caused a plastic deformation, the second firing could, indeed, cause a catastrophic destruction. If you get a gun back after a plastic deformation and before destruction, you can always sleeve the barrel and resubmit. A new gun should not fail. Perhaps a FULL-TIME Proof Master should be hired. If I were a London gun manufacturer, I would be severely PISSED.

No, Birmingham and London apply exactly the same practices.

It is not always teh barrel tubes which fail. If the gun comes off the face under proof testing it fails.

Diggory, Thank you for your following-up on the "Situation". I have spoken with several of the "Chaps in the Know" On the Merrie Isle, Barrel-Makers and such. Its all "Quite Annoying"....Speshly to my Clients who's "Hand Built Shotguns" are waiting to have their Innards tested!! How I would like to be a"Bug on the Wall" at the next Proof Committee,s Meeting. cc/dt

It sounds like there are no measurements for plastic deformation in between proof shots. That is an excellent opportunity for the original load to cause a plastic deformation and the second load to destroy the barrels. It might cost a few dollars more, but it would save some guns to measure in between proof loads. I think every person submitting a gun for proof would be glad to pay the extra amount for the possibility of saving a gun.

It sounds like the Brit proof houses are trying to get in line with Euro proof houses. They should know better. They have been getting appropriate eresults for a long, long time...until now.

On the other hand, if the two failed Purdeys were NEW, something is amiss still.

Talked to Birmingham Proof House today.

They were far more forthcoming and told me the following:
The Birmingham Proof House has for some time loaded the proof loads used by London and they continue to do so.

Their proof loads have been consistent for 10 years and independently tested for consistency.

Proof charges for various guns are loaded according to CIP tables (which can be purchased on CD from the Birmingham Proof House for around £20).

They have been subjecting guns to two proof charges for at least five years.

Failure rates for guns submitted to proof in Birmingham are 3% - that is guns which pass View but fail Proof.

Steel shot proof requires three proof loads, not two.

The Birmingham Proof House is adamant that their practices and their proof loads have not changed.

So, the question "Why are new guns blowing up in London?" has thrown up some interesting information but has yet to be answered.

Smallbore wrote:-
'So, the question "Why are new guns blowing up in London?" has thrown up some interesting information but has yet to be answered.'
Dig, that is interesting, I didn't realise it was new guns,I thought it was certain random failures, and they were perhaps vintage Purdeys up for reproving.
Birmingham failure rates of 3% seem prity good odds to me.After all at that rate for me personally to lose 3 out of 100 I would have to be their only customer, which I most certainly am not, so the chances of my guns passing proof at Birmingham get better.
History, and my Brummie pride have always shown that 'Birmingham is Best'so I will continue to use Brum.Unless the customer specifically asks for London Proof marks.
This blowing up guns business seems to be to me another example of The Duke of Edinburgh's incompetence.
It is him isn't Dig? It is his day job isn't it Dig?
He does work doesn't he Dig?

To my thinking stopping the second proof shot if plastic deformation was seen on the first shot won't save anything. You can't make the barrels stronger and send them to be proofed again. will I guess you could send them to Teaque for lineing and then try to sell a new gun will lined tubes.No real difference in saying the barrels are junk because of plastic deformation or blowing them up on the second shot,barrels are realy trash either way.

Heard awhile back from two different British friends that both London and Birmingham have blown to bits several big bore shotguns (8 bore and 4 bore) in recent years. Apparently they would only do magnum proof on big bore stuff no matter the age and had ruined several. Was also told that now "upon request" Birminghame will do a lighter service proof on older guns. Don't know if all this is true, but I had it from a pretty good source who's deep into large bore shotguns.


Destry

It isn't just the shotguns. I know of new, best quality double rifles that have fairly recently failed proof in London as well.