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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,775 Likes: 467
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,775 Likes: 467 |
Acier Cockerill was the trade mark of Cockerill of Ougree-Liege.http://www.hfinster.de/StahlArt2/archive-CockerillLiege-en.htmlManufacture d’Armes à Feu Liégeoise used this steel almost exclusively.
Last edited by revdocdrew; 04/17/08 04:42 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 333 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 333 Likes: 1 |
Here are your photos. Simply copy the image code beneath each photo in Photobucket,and paste in the reply box here.    HTH, sv
Last edited by steve voss; 04/17/08 04:54 PM.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 77
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 77 |
Thanks Steve, lets see if I can get this to work here should be a picture of the stock shield, I really hope that someone might have some ideas as to the identity of the owner  and here is a scan of the section of the 1910 catalog 
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1 |
It says it's pegion gun and weight is 3,2 Kg in 12G. There are number ML guns in Bitkoff' cathalog 1910/11 and this type of boxlock with ejectors was worth aprx. 150-170 Rubles. Definetly it's not clunker and could be in hands of some Hungarian prince 
Geno.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1 |
PhysDoc, I have a gun by the same maker (ML) it is a 12ga sidelock gun made in the early 1900s. There is some information on GournetUSA in the Belgian guns section, its URL is http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=94Pictures of the gun I own is in that thread, also here, back about a year ago. ML was a very large company and made guns for a long time. Jim
Last edited by james-l; 04/18/08 12:18 AM.
I learn something every day, and a lot of times it's that what I learned the day before was wrong
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,786 Likes: 17
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,786 Likes: 17 |
I have a pre-WWI Mannlicher-Schoenauer M.1910 with a crowned monogramme so I did a bit of research on Nobility Crowns. Mine has seven points indicating a Baron. Nine points would be a Count, while a high crown with mitre was for Dukes and Princes. A crown with a lesser number of points, usualy 3-5, indicates a Nobleman (lower nobility). This is how it was used in central Europe (Germany, Austria, etc.), other localities may vary.
Regards,
Jani
Last edited by montenegrin; 04/18/08 05:55 AM.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 77
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 77 |
Hi Geno
Thanks for looking it up in the catalog, you wrote
"There are number ML guns in Bitkoff' cathalog 1910/11 and this type of boxlock with ejectors was worth aprx. 150-170 Rubles"
it is as you can imagine hard to know what 150-170 Rubles was
worth in 1910, or dollars for that matter. Are there any other shotguns in that catalog going for the same rate that may serve as a standard like a Parker, Lefever or Greener?
Montenegrin, thanks for sharing that research, since at the time
Austria and Hungary were part of the same empire, I assume that the same rules apply. The crown on the stock shield on my has 5 points. Were you able to go any further to find the identity of the person who owned your M.1910?
Regards,
Fred
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,110 Likes: 381
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,110 Likes: 381 |
PhysDoc:
I am curious if there are any other proof marks besides the Belgian marks like a "NP" intertwined w/ a "B" subset, "Crown" over "B.P." in a circle over "FN"-fust nelkuli or "Nem Golyonak"? As per a treaty of 1867, Hungary was a state w/in Austria and followed the June 23, 1891 proof rules as well as the voluntary semi-smokeless update of August 23, 1899. After WWI, Hungary and Czech went their own way keeping the old marks till at least 1928 and may not have seen major changes till 1971.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Last edited by ellenbr; 04/18/08 07:47 AM.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,786 Likes: 17
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,786 Likes: 17 |
Fred,
I'm quite sure Hungarians used the same system, as they were united in Austria-Hungary (1867-1918).
No, I did not try to find the name of the Baron who used to own my Mannlicher-Schoenauer. I found the rifle in Germany a couple of years ago, with a new barrel installed by Waffen Frankonia Würzburg probably in the 1960s. So it could be Austro-Hungarian nobility, or German nobility. A future research maybe...
With kind regards,
Jani
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 77
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 77 |
Ellenbr: to answer your question, there may be other proofmarks, the shotgun is actually with my father in Wisconsin, I've got pictures of the barrels and watertable but unfortunately the resolution just isn't high enough to read the proofmarks. Jani, Thank you for your kind words and input. I put a post on http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.royalty.austrohungariannobility/427.1/mb.ashxto see if that might turn up anything from the people who ancestry research, I will let you know if anything turns up. Jim I liked those pictures of your sidelock. I had never heard of this maker before I got this shotgun but I am impressed with the double I own. I gather from the very brief entries in "side-by-sides of the world for y2k" and the "Blue Book" that probably not many ended up in this country. With kind regards Fred
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