doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Correct patterning of a .410

What is the correct distance at which to pattern a .410 shotgun?
What is the correct size circle to use to determine the choke percentage?
I have read that the .410 is patterned at 25 yards with a 20- inch circle around the densest part of the pattern, and I've read the distance should be 30 yards with a 25-inch circle. I've also read that you should use a 30-inch circle at 25 yards.
What is the correct method?
Thanks, Pete

I would pattern it at the type of shooting you are going to do. If it's for hunting than I would patern it for 20 yards, 25 yds, and 30 yds being the farthest. I wouldn't attempt any shots farther than 35 yds.
If used mainly for skeet I would pattern it at 20 yards on a 30" circle a few times with different size shot and see which gives the best pattern and percentage of shot in said circle.
I've owned a Rem 11-48 .410 25" imp. cyl. barrel since 1967 that I bought in the rod and gun club in Germany and have used it there for hares (10 lbs) hungarian partridge, ducks (mallards, teal) and pheasant. Was using 3" Belgium waxed paper shells that I had to scrape the wax off in order for them to cycle. Have not fired many 2 1/2" 1/2 oz. loads in it, but I would like to try it for skeet with them.

I believe the 'standard' is generally 25 yards for the .410 using a 30" circle centered over the heaviest concentration of pellet strikes.

I have used 30 yards on the plate as being the maximm effective test distance, as it gives me a better visual undertanding of the cartridges limitation. A few shots at the plate from 35 yards w/your better ammunition will generally give you all the visuals needed to understand the serious 'luck' factor involved in cleanly bagging game at that distance, it is already evident at 30 yards with many loads.

The link below, though not specifically addressing the .410 says it best:

http://www.billhanusbirdguns.com/archive29.html

FWIW, I found the Fiocchi 11/16oz. 3" w#7.5 shot and the shorter hulled Winchester Sporting Clays AA's w/#8.5 shot to provide some of the best patterns I've seen from factory .410's for field use, i.e., testing at 30 yards.

The newer Remington STS skeet loads also threw excellent 21 yard patterns from a couple of skeet & one tubed gun I shot a few rounds through, but it was not extensive testing on my part. I will quickly admit that I mostly shoot inferior reloads at skeet w/the .410 as they are not the limiting factor for my level of execution;-)

Thanks for the reply JDW.
I wanted to pattern it to find what the chokes actually were, and I can't determine that until I know what distance the manufacturer used.
I have patterned it at 25 yards using a 20-inch circle and found it to pattern 38% left barrel and 65% right barrel which I think would make it: left barrel cylinder and right barrel improved modified.
Pete

In "The Shotgun Book", Jack O'Connor says to pattern the .410 at 30 yards. The circle size, which should be drawn around the greatest concentration of shot(after the shot) is 30". Use the same percentages as larger gauges to determine the amount of choke you are getting. O'Connor's experience and authority are good enough for me.

Thank you tw.
If I used the 30-inch circle, it would make the gun about, Left barrel skeet, and the right barrel, full. (the gun is an IJ "Skeet-er" and the left barrel is for incomers and is the tighter of the two chokes.)
The left barrel does seem to be too open to shoot the middle stations at Skeet, so, maybe cylinder choke is right.
Pete

Well Jim that makes two that say the circle should be 30-inches.
that should settle it, thanks to all for your replies.
Pete

I've never owned a "Skeeter" but the ones I've seen described for sale don't necessarily make me think Skeet, as we know it and shoot it, are what the guns were really designed for. The chokes are often not what one would normally choose for skeet. I do understand that in the early days of Skeet, field guns and tighter chokes than what is popular now, were commonly used, though.

Jim, I shoot this gun at Skeet, some days I do fairly well and others not so good.
This gun was designed for Skeet, I think.
the left (open barrel) is great for the incomer at about 15 yards but too open for the crossing shots.
Pete

Here is another link to some additional interesting information. Pls note the specific remarks about cylinder and Skeet #1 chokes. Perhaps it will provide a bit more insight on that subject.

http://www.fieldandclays.com/expert_chokes.htm

Of the I.J. Skeeters that I have seen and fired [I only have any real first hand shooting experience with one 28ga. Skeeter] they were made for the game just as their name implied. However, we all know that makers would and could make what the customer wished and something as easy for a mfg to do as supply a standard gun with a dif choke was certainly among the easiest requests to honor. I expect, but do not know for a fact, that many Skeeters were the owner's field guns. The game as originally played was a low gun game with the terms 'pull' & 'mark' being used for the respective targets. I always wondered if the latter term was not a command used for the dog to 'mark' the farther bird [in the field]. In any case, the skeet #1 and skeet #2 chokes were sorta IC and what today is termed 'light mod." by the sporting clays shooters. Of course, the terms are meaningless w/o some pattern testing for the specific loads being utilized.

BTW, the 2.5" .410 paper cartridges were loaded w/thin card wads & only 3/8oz. of shot until the very late 50's or early 60's. If you go back and look in the skeet records you will find there were not but a very small number of 100's broken w/the .410 prior to that time period. I want to say that prior to 1960 it was less than ten, total, in the NSSA record books, but its been a while since I had those interests.