doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Remington 1889 - PICS added

I'm mainly a Fox gun guy so I'm a little out of my element here. I'd appreciate any info you guys can give me. I've been looking for a decent vintage hammer gun for long range shooting. I came across a nice Remington 1889 today, 12 gauge, 32" steel barrels, light hunting wear and all original including pristine screw heads. Its serial number is 2117xx and there is a number 1 to the left of the serial number. I assume that indicates Grade 1. If someone has a reference I'd appreciate knowing when it was built. The barrel lugs are marked 31 left and 35 right. Is this pellet count and if so, what size pellet would have been used for patterning? I haven't miked the bores or chokes yet but the chokes show F & XF with a Gallazan gauge. Barrels ring just fine. Chambers are just a hair under 2-3/4". Last question for now - there's a 7-12 stamped on the bottom of one of its barrels. Does anyone know what that means? Thanks for any help. Silvers

sn places it 1901. Pellet counts are 310 and 350 but you need the hang tag to know the load they used. I don't know what the 7-12 means. You might check here http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/

BTW if you decide to pass on it I might be interested.

Hi The 7 12 on one barrel is the weight. 7 lbs. 12oz.

The load shown on surviving hang tags for Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles show the 12-gauge guns targetted with 1 1/4 ounce of #8 shot. I've not seen a hang tag for a Model 1889, but there is no reason to think Remington Arms Co. would have used a different load for them. The shot charts in the Remington Arms Co. catalogues up through the two 1901 catalogues show soft shot with 499 #8 pellets in a 1 1/4 ounce load. Catalogues from 1902 on show chilled shot with 511 #8 in a 1 1/4 ounce load. If the number shamped on the rear barrel lug is three digits, that is the count. If it is two digits a leading 3 is implied. So depending on whether they used soft or chilled your patterns would be 335/499 = 67.1% and 331/499 = 66.3% or 335/511 = 65.5% and 331/511 = 64.7%.

Thank you everyone for your replies. Maybe I wasn't clear when I wrote earlier, I did buy this Remington. Researcher, thanks also for doing the math. I just finished doing some cleaning and checking; here's what I found.

Right bore .733", choke .028" minimum wall .040"

Left bore .732", choke .037" minimum wall .039"

Gun weight is 7 pounds, 12.5 ounces

The bores are very good with only a little light tarnishing here and there. Its rib is pretty wide at a bit over 9/16" at the breech and 3/8" at the muzzles. I really like those C shaped hammers and how they come down below the plane of the breeches when cocked. Silvers

Remingtons 1899's are very goodguns. I have 2. With all respect some thing with remingtons doesn't add up. With the choke dias shown by Silvres youu would expect to see more difference in the two barrels. 028 is light full choke and 037 is quite full. Remingtom may have rounded out the pellet counts to the nearest 10 meaninging 310 and 350 as said here by Ohiosam, Using 310 and 350 and 499 pellets the patterns are 62 % and 70 % and that is about right for the choke dias posted. I have read about dropping the leading 3 in the Double Journal stories but look at winter 2003 page 40. The lump stamps are 43-195 and the respected author says that is cylinedr and modified. Can someone do 2 calculations using those numbers that come up with 40 % and 60 % patterns as commonly used for cylinder and modified? It seems Rem may have changed the system somewhere along inthose years.

195/499 = 39%, just about dead on for a cyl bore. (many cyl bores will not come up to 40%)
343/499 = 68.7%, which I would call a full choke pattern.
Question might better be to ask "How" did the author determine it was Cyl/Mod. The stamped patterns would tend to Cyl/Full. (many bbls marked Mod will pattern higher than 60%)
I see no real discrepancy here, just individual bbl patterning characteristics. If you use the 511 count then % drops to 38%/67% respectfully.

That implied leading 3 came from guns that survive with their hang tags. It wasn't pulled out of thin air.

Thanks again to all for your information. Miller's post certainly answered Joe's except for the "modified" terminology question. I don't have that DGJ so I can't read it myself. I'm sure Researcher's info is correct as it always is. I will do some patterning with my new 1889 with low pressure shells once I get a chance, and will report back here. I don't usually use 8 shot so I'll probably do it with 7-1/2's and then with 2's and 4's. Silvers