doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lefever 10 gauge SxS - NEED HELP

Let me start by saying my buddy's going to get the gun checked out by a highly competent gunsmith before ever even considering shooting it, but this beauty will most likely end up a wall hanger.

A friend of mine acquired a double barrel 10 gauge LeFever shotgun for only $175. It's serial # is "11XXX D" on the frame and "B 11XXX" on the barrel, and all numbers match. It has a 28 inch Damascus steel barrel with double beads. The muzzle end of the barrels measure 0.745/0.750" ID, left and right respectively. It's all original except for the buttplate which appears to be made of unmarked, unfinshed aluminum (a good job though). There's engraving all over the receiver: on the right side of the receiver is a dog, on the underside is a duck, on the left side is a dog, and on the triggerguard is a dog with a bird in its mouth. There's scroll style engraving along all the edges of the receiver. The wood is finely checkered, but the checkering is worn from use. The rib on the barrel has a very interesting design that I am unsure how to explain, but it's beyond serrations. The action closes fairly tight, not solid bank vault tight, but tighter than some guns I've seen fired. The back trigger and safety do not work; partial disassembly has revealed that the left barrel's hammer is broken and the rear trigger's return spring is broken or missing, still unsure what's going on with the safety. He said the previous owner hunted regularly with it and used modern high brass 10 gauge shells! (I didn't think they would fit, don't these old guns have a shorter chamber?) I own a few shotguns, but nothing I own points even closely to this antique; the thing handles like a dream.

I've included a link below to pictures, but I'm no photographer so the pics aren't the best:
Pictures

He's trying to figure out what to do with this beauty and has a few questions:
1) What Grade is this gun? B or D?
2) What is its approximate worth?
3) Where could he find an original buttplate? Gun Parts Corp has buttplates, but I don't think they're for this Grade Lefever. What about a replacement hammer & trigger return spring?
4) Is the problem with the safety a standard failure for LeFever's and if so what is the cause?
5) Assuming the gunsmith gave the gun a clean bill of health, what types of ammunition would be safe to shoot through this gun?
6) What chokes do those muzzle ID's correspond to?

The local 'smith is a genius (retired master machinest, etc) but if he is too busy to look at it what gunsmiths out there specialize in these guns?

Sorry for all the questions. I know guns, but not doubles, and my buddy asked me for help. Thanks

Bill, I can't tell you much about LeFever guns, all I can tell you is he should have been put in jail for stealing it. Questions 1-4 I can't help you with, but I believe it is a high grade gun.
10 ga. at that period would have had 2 7/8" chambers. If the previous owner said he shot 3 1/2" out of it I would definitly have it looked at very carefully. If found shootable only use low pressure loads under 8,000 psi (in my opinion)
Chokes I believe would be lt.mod/mod as 10 ga bore was +/-.775.
Good luck and keep us informed for results for gunsmith.
I'll give him double what he paid.

Bill;
Choke cannot be determined by muzzle measurement only, it needs bore dia as well. From a nominal 10ga bore of .775" these would have .025"/.030" constriction which in a 10ga would be strong modified to imp-modified. "Many" Lefevers however were bored oversized for use with brass hulls. Lefever referred to the rib design as "Engine Turned" & was standard for them. Some early 10ga guns had 2 5/8" chambers, but 2 7/8" dates back very early as well. Guns were also available on special order with different lengths of chambers. I have a Lefever E grade 10ga SN 10,515 with 3" chambers. I of course cannot prove it was not rechambered, but to my knowledge 3" has never been a standard chamber length for the 10ga in this country. Chamber length is measured per the "Fired" shell length, a longer shell will enter the chamber because of it's shorter crimped length. I hope he was not firing the 3½" Magnum 10ga loads from it. Engraving looks more like the D to me, certainly not that of a B grade. As I mentioned over on the Lefever board this gun was built out of sequence for the serial number. It is quite possible the frame had stayed in stock & it was finished up from parts after the Co was acquired by Ithaca. Perhaps it was built as a D grade but a set of B grade bbls were fit up to it. Hopefully others can add more insight to this gun. It should definitely be worth some restoration effort. Buck Hamlin would be a good man to contact, probably someone here can give you his contact info, he is a specialist on Lefevers.

It looks like some of the D-grades pictured in "Uncle Dan Lefever, Master Gunmaker" by Robert W. Elliot. Keith Kearcher in Bend, Oregon, is a good man with Lefevers.

http://members.toast.net/keithkearcher/

You might also ask the same question on the Lefever forum. You'll have a specialized audience there. http://lefeverforum.informe.com/

At the time this gun was made, 2 7/8 inch, was the "standard" length for 10-gauge shells in North America. Longer shells, 3- and 3 1/4 inch were available at extra cost. Again, as has been stated many times about old time longer 12-gauge shells, these longer shells did not carry a heavier load, just more and better wadding. In my old shot shell catalogues, the heaviest smokeless 10-gauge loads were 3 3/4 dram equiv. and 1 1/4 ounces of shot. In black powder you could get up to 5 drams of powder with 1 1/4 ounces of shot. One and 1 1/8 ounce 10-gauge loads were common. All that being said about available factory loads, we know from reading that a goodly number of the oldsters were handloading their shells a lot heavier and hotter than the factories would.

Galazan has at least three different repro vintage Lefever butt plates -- http://www.csmcspecials.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PB220

All of your responses have been very helpful.

What do you think this gun is worth? If it were yours would you restore it?

OK I will take a shot, $2200. Don't even think about a restoration.

Take your new LEFEVER to Dewey Vicknair to be correctly repaired. Dewey Vicknair, 565 Oak Lane, Lititz, Pennsylvania zip code 17543, phone 717-626-4226. jentb737

http://www.vicknairrestorations.com/index.html

http://www.vicknairrestorations.com/Doublegun_Restorations.html

Researcher;
Re the non-standard shell lengths, in the time frame we are speaking of here, were all these non standards available factory loaded or were some only sold as empties for loading. I have assumed the 3" chamber in my 10 ga was probably ordered that way when built, or if "Re-Chambered" at least not long afterward. Following WWI I doubt if 3" hulls would have been available except for possibly some old stock. I have a list somewhere from around 1900 showing available shell lengths in the various gauges, mostly in 1/8" steps from 2½" up to 3¼", with 2 9/16" thrown in for at least the 16ga & maybe others. I do not recall though if all these were available loaded or just as new empties.