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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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Slightly bottleneck at the very end 10,75x68R Mauser was common for DR, combos and drillings. It was much slower, than rimless version 10,75x68. Grundig and Collath sounds odd for Belgian DR. Moreover 10,75x65R Collath, known as Tesco-Hulse was with straight case. Also there was Mauser rimless 10,75x63 and Ihave no idea about the same with rim.
Geno.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
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I'll agree with Raimey as it stands now with the picture of the chamber cast at http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/7111Dixon mentions that both the Collath round and the Grundig do show small shoulders, with the base and rim of the Grundig being closer to the cast. The fly in this ointment is the 1943 date estimation. The Collath rounds, according to Dixon again, were not commercially loaded past 1915, and production of the Grundig round ceased in the early '30s. I can't find my reference to Belgian inspector codes (the star-over-V) to cross reference the date. The 10,75x68R Mauser seems a bit long for the pictured cast which shows a 2.603" (66mm) length to the end of the chamber.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
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A friend is describing this to me so excuse the unanswered parts that I know should be included.
A Belgium rifle dated 1943 (with the v and a star over it) with 10.3 stamped on the barrel, Nitro proofs post 1924.With a rim daimeter of .550 and a base of .500. The bore is .420. He "thinks" he can feel a end of chamber length of 2". And it is a straight walled cartridge.
The * over v is not the date stamp. It is a controller of proof mark. In this case Isidor Maçon, who was a controller from 1929 to 1953. In 1943 Belgium was an occupied country. I doubt seriously that they produced any sporting arms that year. It is even less likely they produced one in an obsolete chambering in 1943 for the Russian front. There is no date stamp on the barrels. I have a thought about who produced the barrels, but am not certain. It would help to see the water table and any other marks on this gun. Then at least we could say who made and when. Pete
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
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It has the 1924 nitro proof of the lion over PV and the dtae code "v" for 1943. I am not sure what the * star means.
There were many civilian guns made in Europe during the war years and I believe this to be one of them.
That's why I'm surprised that it has such a different / odd chambering.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1 |
Yeap, maybe it's 10,75x65R I don't know Grundig or Collath, but seems Graf&Sons got this cases imported from Australia. http://www.grafs.com/product/183636
Geno.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 977
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 977 |
In the Belgian system of proof the individual inspecting the gun would stamp his (or her?) own inspector code - "controller of proof" ID as PeteM mentions. This code is in the form of a star over a letter, in this case star-over-V which, by Pete's reference, was "Isidor Maçon, who was a controller from 1929 to 1953".
The "v" is not a date code, it is "star-over-V" an inspector's ID code.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 977
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 977 |
Cross-posted to Britishmilitaria forum as well -
Bertram of Australia makes 10,75x65R brass which is available from Huntington's, MidwayUSA and probably others, and although they don't explicitly say it is the Grundig version I would be surprised if it weren't.
Per Dixon:
case length 64.77mm
rim diam 13.7mm
base diam 12.48mm
neck diam 11.48mm
commercially loaded from 1900 to 1933 or so by Utendoerffer and Gecado
Dixon's comments:
"This caliber was listed by RWS/Utendoerffer and appears in their 1908-1921 catalogs. Also listed by Gecado into the 1930s. This caliber is not to be confused with the 10,75x65R Collath which uses a thinner case but like that caliber appears to have a very slight neck."
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 601
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 601 |
Ok, I get it. I thought the v was the date code of mfg. I'll see about getting a pic of the watertable on the frame.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Steve, Thanks. The point is that "Acier Compound" sounds like a registered trade mark to me, but I can not find it in any of my lists.... I think, but can not proof it was held by Pieper. If that is the case, he may be out of luck. Pieper did have a cartridge company and often made proprietary rounds for their guns... To the best of my knowledge the Pieper proprietary cartridges have never been completely cataloged. Here is an example: http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=215However, I could be mistaken. It could just as well be from ML or Neumann. That is why I asked about the other markings on the gun. Pete
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 977
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 977 |
Hi Pete, I think it actually says "Acier Comprime", basically "compressed steel". As far as I know this is not a trade mark of any particular company, sorta like "fluid steel".
And re the cool pages on Gournet's site - I neeeed one of those hats....
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