doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who made this one?

Interesting percussion sxs. Can anyone recognize the markings on it?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=93107037

Pete

Interesting, looks like fluid steel barrels, but with groves made on lathe.

Yep, there were patents filed in England and here for such a process. So, I am at a loss. If done in England is should have proof marks.

Pete

These barrels are Damascus that was etched. This was done by Gibbs, on rifles, in England (I think I remember Gibbs) and Schilling in Germany.
I once owned such a Schilling that is presently owned by a member of the BBS. I have posted this shotgun in the past.
http://www.worldpath.net/~jmann/Schilling%2094779%20016.jpg
They are strikingly beautiful.
The gun, in question, does not appear to me to be of either one's building. Then again, the boar head would certainly make one think Germanic. Perhaps a provincial German/Austrian builder. This would explain the lack of marks. Circa 1850/1870??
Best,
John

A close look at the pictures posted by Pete shows the grooves to be machine made. One picture shows the grooving running over proof type marks.

John is right on the deep etching on some barrels from Europe, but these are machine grooved. I have not seen an example before.

Fellas:

Please shoot the following idea down & put it out of its misery but I GUESS that the gun is of French origin. From the fuzzy pic it appears that the mark is similar to the February 19, 1824 St. Etienne mark that was lost and replaced in 1856 at the St. Etienne proofhouse with a similar mark w/ an oval described as follows: "Crown over crossed palm branches w/ 3 stars". One star to the right of the crossed palms. One star to the left of the crossed palms and one star below the crossed palms. On July 14, 1860, this mark was cut in 1/2 with a 1/2 stamp indicating an altered rifle. Furthermore, 16 bore(British) would have been 40 caliber in the French gauge designation of the number of lead spheres of the bore diameter to the French pound(32 gauge to 56 gauge until 1868). Now I am guessing that the 44 mark might approximate 20 bore(English). Anyone have any conversion of English to French pounds in that era or give me a push in a direction to derive the equation? Last, there look to be vice/clamp marks on the underside of the tubes which could have been what held the tubes while the grooves were made by a hand or simple driven machine. I was also going to guess the "V" to be the Austrian or German vorrat(supply) mark but I don't see the crown for the German mark and I really don't know what the Austrian mark looked like.

Anyone want to hear of Swiss Pauly's contribution to Lefaucheux's contribution of the modern breech loader:( http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=139&whichpage=2 )?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, I don't want to hijack the thread, but Pauly is a favorite of mine. A local friend has one, a shotgun, but I have seen his double rifles, too. Some are amazingly decorated. But the neatest thing is that the Pauly gun was from 1808 or so as you suggest. It was a hammerless [internal hammers], internal firing pins, and used a centerfire cartridge. So what ? one might say . Well, those designs were about 50 years ahead of the rest of the world.

Mr. Hallquist:


It's PeteM's thread and I don't think he would consider it being captured by bandits. During my quest to learn of the ore, the mines, the furnaces, I found that much of the gun technology was expanding around a kernel in the area of France. But either economics, govermental control or lack of abundance of raw materials prohibited France from being a major suppler. But they were a supplier of sorts in that they developed the technology for the guntrade for the next 200 years. So, the Swiss Pauly has become a favorite or mine also and it is sad that the Brits didn't recognize his genius and he was forced to the level or a pauper.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It was made by a Pauper that was later boAr'd to death.

Daryl,

I agree it was machine etched.

GUSTAAY ADOLF SACHS
Lived in the Dakota territories, then moved to Eugene Oregon.
Patent 353432 - BREECH-LOADING FIRE-ARM



There was also:
WILLIAM ROSE of Halesowen, England
410,678 - IMPROVEMENT IN THE QUALITY AND ORNAMENTATION OF METALS
Issue date: Jul 7, 1863
http://www.google.com/patents?id=jQsAAAA...e+39174#PPP2,M1

I am thinking this may be an American example of the Sachs patent in use. The marks on the barrels are the only thing that keep me from being sure. Or did the maker start out with French tubes and then etch them? So many questions...

Pete