doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dishonest??

Jimmy,

I've a pair of Dickson 12 gauge round action guns. They are not consecutively numbered, but were ordered by the same client about one year apart and I have the paper from the period that confirms it. The guns, one made in 1899 s/n 51XX and the other, made in 1900, s/n 52XX had damascus barrels with 25 thou wall thickness that I had rebrowned at Dickson in 1986 after buying them. They are rivelled and show the polishing that my South African gunsmith did, but are still in proof.

Three years ago I decided to get more use out of the guns, looked around the UK and sought to have two sets of modern barrels with 2-3/4" (70mm) chambers made. I called Dickson which quoted 6,500 pounds sterling per barrel. A British gunsmith friend produced a quote less than half that for two sets of barrels. I now have modern steel barrels for each of my Dicksons, proofed at 850 bar. The barrels, "made by another" as the Brits say, are numbered to the gun, but do not have a Dickson oval, nor address. Let me quickly add that I use light loads such as Winchester AA with one ounce of shot, or even RSTs made for the 2-1/2 inch 12 gauge. Took half a dozen hungarian partride with the older of the pair on Monday.

The guns are surely worth more now than just with their original barrels and there is no issue of deception, even from ignorance when my non-shooting heirs eventually dispose of them. Just to recall an anecdote that might have originally appeared on this board: Some time ago, a fellow took his Purdey into the shop there on South Audley street, noting he had bought it some years ago and wondered about having it serviced. The gunroom manager took the gun into the back and shortly returned it with the barrels sawn in two. The barrels, he noted, carried the Purdey name but Purdey did not make them. The unhappy owner reeled out of the shop...

Regards, Tim

Don is right, period.

The Mad Cow can make down look like up from what I hear.

Kreighoff k-80 & K-20 no longer have serial numbers on the barrels
bill

If it were a new H&R singleshot we were discussing, it wouldn't matter squat, and maybe the same case with a 68x Beretta. As soon as any portion of the percieved value of having a multi-barrel set gun is from it's rarity and collectability, it becomes an issue.

What Chuck said.

I have a six barrel set Beretta, some fitted by Beretta USA, none matching except the original. I have several Kreighoffs with extra barrels, some fitted at Kreighoff USA, none of the extra barrels match the originals. I have several Parkers with extra barrels that are not original to the gun, all but one set are not numbered to the original gun. The only one I am disappointed with is the Parker that I had numbered to the original gun more than thirty five years ago. I am afraid that someone will think I was trying to pull a fast one on a potential buyer. "Found" extra barrels should not be numbered to the original guns except by fakers and thieves. I'm sure there are those that disagree and I will read their posts and reconsider.

I'm not a fan, but here is a good example of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDK6ctRjqw
K.

This is an interesting subject and seems to have nothing to do with the utility of the "new" barrels. Just the name and number. Hmmmmm

Who is being dishonest when a gun is rebarreled by another , and the original rib is used with it's markings of the original gun ?

OK , who is being dishonest when you commission your Best gun to have new barrels put on by that same Best maker. Sometimes, I'm sure, that Best maker sends your gun out to have new barrels fit by someone else. It could even be Mr. Another in the paragraph above. Now when the newly barreled gun is returned to the owner, exactly the same work as in the paragraph above has been done. In this instance we are led to think the new barrels are somehow superior to the one's above. In what way, may I ask ? Maybe because the Mr. Best charged the gun owner multiples of what Another charged, Mr. Gun Owner feels he somehow got a superior product. Now, all that is is good salesmanship, the rest is Poppycock.

Daryl brought up a good point. When a British gun has the original maker's marks on the rib of a rebarrelled gun but the original maker had nothing to do with the installation of the new barrels, is that OK? We're talking here about guns that were rebarrelled without any connection with the original maker, and spuriously marked. It is a common situation but not one that purchasers of older guns should be comfortable with. As long as the new barrels are the original length, the letter of provenance from the original maker would give no clue of the non original barrels. The difference of the actual value of the original and the non original gun could be in five figures, if the facts were known. I think Daryl is talking about the original maker subcontracting the new barrels, a different situation entirely. Subcontracting is perfectly fine since the customer discusses the rebarrelling with the maker before writing the check.

To be 100% honest, why not have new set of barrels serialed the same as the original, but stamped "added in 2007"? Then they can be kept together without any future owner being misled.

JERRY